02: Headwaters Outfitters with Jessica Whitmire

Headwaters is dedicated to providing family-friendly outings along the French Broad River, and beyond: from big groups of 20 family members to the most elite fisher men and women! Their customer service is unmatched and their proud of that. As a small family owned and operated outfitter in Rosman, N.C., they are passionate about sharing their knowledge of Western North Carolina’s natural resources, their love for Appalachian Mountains, and the outdoor recreation opportunities found along the French Broad River Watershed! Jessica Whitmire was raised in this family business and returned after a short teaching career to serve as the Director of Operations of Headwaters. She is entering her sixth year in this position leading the family business.

Mike Andress
Host, Exploration Local
828-551-9065
mike@explorationlocal.com

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Transcript

spk_1:   0:00
expiration. Local Podcast Episode two You're Listening to Exploration Local, a podcast designed to explore and celebrate the people in places that make the Blue Ridge Mountains special and unique. My name is Mike Andress, the host of Exploration Local. I'll be sitting down with people in business owners that have a deep love for the outdoors and who helped to fuel the spirit of adventure in these mountains. We encourage you to wander far, but explore local. Let's go. This was a really fun interview for me, getting to know Jessica Whitmire. She is the director of operations at Headwaters Outfitters, and she's been in this role for about six years. But she is no stranger to the business. In fact, she grew up in this business. Her parents, David and Debbie Witmeyer. They founded Headwaters Outfitters in 1992. So Jessica truly brings the unique perspective of being ableto link the past with a vision for the future. I really think you're gonna enjoy today's conversation with Jessica. Welcome to the show, Jessica.

spk_0:   1:13
Hey, thanks for having me.

spk_1:   1:14
I know that you've been with this business for your lifetime, Really? I mean, not many people can say that not only do they understand a company, but you really kind of saw this thing for most of your childhood, right? I mean, you grew up around this company.

spk_0:   1:33
Yes. I mean, I think I was seven when my parents and, ah, a couple of their friends decided to take this journey on. Um, we had always been a river family. I think they I have pictures of my mom and I in a canoe, and I was three weeks old, so I mean, I grew up on the river

spk_1:   1:53
Gulshan,

spk_0:   1:54
and then they rented a house next to my best friend, my my childhood best friend. They rented a house in the little downtown of downtown Rosman, which is this very small little mountain town on the river. And so I just remember being ableto it was the coolest thing in the world because I got to go to my best friend's house every day of play, and, um, it was just it was magical, and I just watched it grow. Um, from eight canoes in a trailer to a little small rental house too. We have over 60 boats now, and the building in the tap room so it has been a really fun process. It's not that it's not had its difficulties because all family businesses do. But it has been really cool to watch this business grow and develop and change.

spk_1:   2:41
That's awesome. And so you're into your six season now as that director of operations. And, um, you really have that connection of the past. You can celebrate that, and you can also talk about building into the to the future for the company. Now, are your parents still involved with the company?

spk_0:   2:59
Yes. And my mom, still the president. She's, you know, she's still the that we call the HB. I see she is. She's the one that kind of runs the runs, the show, um, with the faras decision making here. But she doesn't actually work, you know? She doesn't work here on a daily basis. She's, um she's just the president. And the My dad is, um, the director of, um, the paddling program and the programs outside. So he does still work here on a daily basis with me. He's really in charge of the paddling programs, the tubing programs and the staffing for that outside and him and, um are our head paddling guy. Danielle kind of control that world. So he is. He's here with me.

spk_1:   3:43
Awesome, awesome. And I can't wait to get into that a little bit more because you all offer so many different types of activities. But before we get into all those, the French Broad River has a really, really deep history, and I know that it's provided a lot of value to the Rosman community, to western North Carolina toe anglers to people who enjoy the outdoors. So before we get into it, let's let's talk about a little backdrop. Can you help us get a flavor of what? The history of the French Broad River and specifically where you all are located? What is that history and how does it value your community?

spk_0:   4:21
So, I mean, the history of the French broad is, you know, it's the third oldest river in the world. Um, So this community and this thes towns in this area has been built up around this river, and that goes back to the Cherokee Indians. I mean, the Cherokee Indians, um, had camps. They had settlements, they had hunting camps here, all based on the richness of this river valley. They did a lot of agricultural stuff here, Um, and then from there, um, you know, it's just always been, um, you know, from a means of transportation. Um, too, Um, the tannery Rosman kind of grew into this had a big tannery. At one point, Rosman was actually like the town seed. At one point, it was the biggest town in the county and based off that tannery and then the you know, then areas like late talks away when they, you know, when they developed the talks way community, the river's always been a very important centerpiece to everything going on within this community. Um, the river in its watershed. Um, and we've seen it, you know, for a while, you know, with the tannery here in the industrial area. Of course, like many of our waterways, the importance of clean water, just what wasn't quite, um, you know, people just didn't quite get it back then. So the rivers were kind of used and abused, and, you know, it was in rough shape for a while. And then, you know, the community started realizing how beautiful of a river it was and that it needed to be taken care of and cleaned up. And my parents and again, some of their friends, um, they were all big paddlers, kind of took that charge and said, OK, we're gonna get in here and get dirty. And I mean, they pulled historical old cars, old refrigerators. You know, it was just kind of a dumping grounds for a long time, so they kind of led that initiative to start cleaning up that historical trash. Um, and since then, I mean I and I tell people time I'm not biased. I just think this is one of the prettiest sections of river that in the short ooga are just I just don't think there's anywhere else much, you know, prettier around here. Um, and now we see, you know, people really kind of investing in an understanding the importance of our rivers and our clean water. Um, and we're not seeing the dumping and the, you know that we're seeing people take pride and ownership of it a lot more. Not that they're still not issues. We still have a ways to go, but it's it's really gotten a lot better in the last 20 years.

spk_1:   6:51
Fantastic. so geographically where you all are, your your right at the intersection really of highway to 15 and highway 64. So you're in between providing cashiers and the if you had north on Highway 2 15 like you're headed towards the Blue Ridge Parkway. That's really where the whole Headwaters watershed is beginning, right? You're the face of what court Courthouse falls

spk_0:   7:19
yet. We're at them. You're at the basic courthouse follows you got Devils, Poroshenko, Warehouse Creek coming down. Um, that's the North most tributary kind of the headwaters, the true headwaters of the French Broad River. And those small creeks and courthouse freak um, come together. They flow into the north fork of the French Broad River. Which blows what? I'm actually staring at it right now as it's slowing by my office window on its way down to the bridge here at the intersection where the Westport comes in from the other side and they joined together to create the French broad.

spk_1:   7:55
That's amazing location, I think the first time that I ever saw your place, I I actually it was by accident. I was coming from Waynesville onto 15 headed south, and I get to this place Some of their center section and I saw your outpost and man, it's It is such an amazing location that you all are in its such easy access. You have incredible waters. You do a little slice of heaven. There

spk_0:   8:21
it is. We really love our intersection. Um, it's, you know, we've got the traffic off the parkway 1 78 You know, people coming up from Greenville, then we have the the to 81 intersection. You know, the other side of our the to 81 South that comes up from the Atlanta area. So there's just a lot of diversity of people and why they're coming to this area on what they're looking for, kind of make their way to our outpost, and they sit at the bar of the tack room. And it's just a really cool mix of people. That and a lot of times people do, they're just lost and they just come in and they're like, we have no idea where we're at, and they're like, Well, that's a good thing, you know? That's where you're at.

spk_1:   9:04
That's right. That's what I get lost intentionally. I like it. Yeah, eso you are you are huge into fly fishing. I mean, that's been a huge part of your entire upbringing. Now I know because I you were You graduate from Brevard College. I gotta throw this in there. You're also an athlete. You are a former volleyball player. And is it Softball was a scuffle that you played basketball. Basketball? That's right. Volleyball and basketball. So So you did all those sports. But you still your love was was the river. I mean, that's what that's what gives you life right.

spk_0:   9:40
It is, You know, I'm I love sports. I'm I'm a competitive person at by nature and at heart. And I, you know, I grew up in the gym here. It's funny. We would come here and splash in the river, um, play down at the park at Champion Park in the river and then go to the gym, shoot basketball, then go across the street, the little diner, go back to the gym and play volleyball and then go back down to the river or the pool like that was just our That was our way of life for my group of girlfriends. Growing up, we were that was just every day, seven days a week. Almost that same schedule. Um, but life fishing, you know, being on the river. Um, I went away when I decided when I made the commitment to really get into sports. Um, probably my eighth grade ninth grade year in high school. I made the commitment to really focus on sports. So for a couple of years, I didn't fish much. I went on a couple fishing trips. Didn't you know? Didn't it Wasn't something I did every day. I was really committed toe. Um, I want to play volleyball in college, and I was committed to that scholarship and trying to kind of make that dream come true. And then my senior trip in high school, My dad, you know, everybody goes to the beach, right? So everybody's, you know, at Myrtle Beach senior week and all the stuff when my parents were like, No, you're not doing senior week like that's just not gonna happen. I was so mad, Really. You know, I can't go to senior week and Dad's like, No, instead of doing this, we're going to go. We're going to go out to the middle fork of the salmon river we we got, you know, one of a

spk_1:   11:10
three

spk_0:   11:10
people in our group pulled the permit. We had a big group get together, and we decided to go and and that was the That was the first time I had picked up a Really, That's the first time I'd really picked up a fly rod and really had the intention other than that was, you know, kind of spinner fission Or, you know, fishing with my grand Paul up on the West. Or, you know, Duncan worms and things like that, and then fly fishing just here, there. Um, I would fly fish with my my grandpa and Hazel Creek some, But that was the first time I really grabbed a fly Rod was like, This is my fishing trip like, this is a fishing trip of a lifetime. Um, and it Wasit was just that. And since then, you know, I didn't have a whole lot of time playing. Two sports in college had very little time to do a lot of fishing. Um, but it was nice toe have that because I really struggled in the aftermath of not being an athlete anymore. You know, after that last game. I was like, he's supposed to do with myself and that fire out with And it was just a Really It was cool for that to be there for me to pick right back up when when sports were over.

spk_1:   12:13
Nice. So you had an outlet, a great outlet, It sounds like Yes. And that really shaped. I mean, from that point, it just kind of shaped your life and your, um I mean, I don't mean have painted that brought of a stroke, but it sort of changed the trajectory of Of what you're going to take an interest in and really kind of set the course for your professional life. Now

spk_0:   12:35
it did. You know, I I wasn't sure of coming back to the family. Business was going to be something that I genuinely wanted to dio at that time. You know, coming out of college. Um, you know, I you know, I wanted to kind of see what teaching was gonna be like. I thought I wanted to maybe work in the school system. I was still working at Headwaters. We had just actually started the fly fishing program, like two years before I graduated college. So I had just been involved in that a little bit in that beginning phases of bringing that fly fishing program in and but knew that I loved the outdoors. But so I ended up going to teach and spent three years in the school system. But and we actually my parents had actually sold Headwaters to a longtime employee during that time. And so I just kind of thought, Well, this is cool, like Headwaters is, you know, it's it's, you know, it's it's in good hands. It's in a great family. It's another family that we wait trust and we respect. And they're you know, they've got this and I really just didn't it. It kind of went out of my mind. And then, unfortunately, within the year of less than a year of Sid owning this business, he got cancer and passed away very suddenly. Um, and it was just a super tragic loss for our community because what? He was just a beautiful soul. So then it was, you know, the talking with their family of you know, what the future of Headwaters looks like. And we you know, that's when I kind of made the decision. I sat down and talked with Mom, and I was like, I just can't watch this building close its doors yet, Like, I just can't I don't I'm not ready to see this business go away. So I made the commitment. Teoh, you know, come back as you know, kind of head things up. And we made the family decision to do this together. And that's how I kind of came back into Headwaters and have been, And that was six years ago and that, And, you know, I just knew that I loved fly fishing. And so when I did come back six years ago, that was kind of my determination was to, you know, continue on what Headwaters has always been known for, but really kind of dig and develop this fly fishing program, especially on, you know, bringing more women into it. That's when I was like, This is this is my chance of a timeto. Really, At that time, we had zero women client, you know, that was all it was all male clients and and that quickly changed. That was my goal. And that was fun.

spk_1:   14:55
So let's talk about that a little bit more because that's we're talking about a women's movement in the fly fishing industry. And you're right. I mean, I have friends. A lot of the images that you see on TV commercials, whatever it may be, it's it's male dominated. But, um, here you are growing up and being, you know, somewhat of an expert in fly fishing, and you're bringing a unique perspective of having this in your past, being a business owner and now female, Um, talk about the women's movement and fly fishing.

spk_0:   15:30
Yes, so you know one thing I always like it is a very dynamic conversation, and I love having that conversation about women and fly fishing. And what I always like to start off with this to make sure people know that women have always been and fly fishing like there's always been. There has been some amazing strong females that I go, you know, you know, go way back like it's a generally we have some generations of of leadership in the women's industry and fly fishing. It just was that you didn't see it because we didn't have the social media, you know, we didn't have the the TV and the the YouTube and instagram. Um and so they weren't, you know, it wasn't out there as much, but they were There have always been there, but, you know, it has been, you know, whenever fly fishing kind of started gaining steam as a popular recreation hobby, it was very much, you know, branded and focused on the men and the, you know, there's men out fly fishing. They had some great names. You know, you had some leaders in the industry that were male, and they were paving ways and coming out with flies and developing programs. And, you know, it was just It was that was kind of the theme of it. And then and then it just you know, actually, you know, some women have had, um you know, I've spoken. I'm the dirt diversity initiative coordinator for North Carolina. And, you know, I've had conversations with some women who have who have had issues being female in this industry. And I have always told him, you know, im extremely sorry for that. I fortunately have never, You know, I've never really not seeing strong women, and I think it's because my mom was such a good role model. I had her. And, you know, I always was surrounded by strong women, so I always had that leadership. But I understand that some people didn't have that. And when they wanted to get into fly fishing, it was hard for them to find, um, some women to connect Teoh. And they got a little intimidated or a little turned off because, you know, we get it. Sometimes men aren't the best at, you know, welcoming out, you know, women into the what their

spk_1:   17:33
you

spk_0:   17:34
know, their world on. And so I think that's a lot of what was going on. As women, we're walking into the fly shops and asking, What can I get you for your husband? What does your house? Are you here to get something for your husband?

spk_1:   17:44
Oh, yeah. You

spk_0:   17:45
know, instead of being like, Oh, that's cool. You're in a flash up. Are you a fisherman by Do you fish? That was just It was just the wrong questions. I think they were being asked from the conversations I've had since then. We've had some amazing organizations like Trout Unlimited in companies like service in Patagonia that have really helped, um, bridge that gap and start, you know, opening that conversation of welcoming everybody to this. It's not just a minute, just not women. It's it's It's not just, you know, an age group or ah, color group. It's Everybody has access to this sport. Um, and let's welcome everybody and make everybody want to be, you know, fly fisherman. Because that just means that if they like to fly fish, they like being on the river or the ocean or a lake, and that's just gonna create more steward. So the more people we welcome into our sport, the better it is for all of us.

spk_1:   18:42
Very good. Very good. And you have not just yourself, but you will have a number of female guides within the company right now. Right?

spk_0:   18:51
We do. So that was one thing I when I came back, when when I started operating Headwaters, you know, I was what? We had one other full time guide and and I wasn't running a lot of trips. I would help here there. But the majority of my stuff is is in the back end of this business, and it kind of has to be, because if you miss a day or two. It's just a lot of catching up to do. So I've kind of had my thumb on the inventory and the the payroll and all that those kind of things, Um, and the more we started marketing, and the more we got this business kind of the fly fishing business really rolling, we were, you know, hiring other guides. And and I just ended up meeting, um, Abbey Bagwell, who was working at climate Fishing Company at the time and in She's, you know, she was She's a great angler and we became very good friends, really quickly. Spent a lot of time out on the water. And she's, you know, I said, happy, you know, like you need to run some trips you need to guide a little bit. Your personality is perfect for this, like we need. You know, we have a lot of women that have asked like you have a female guide and there just wasn't any around here. There was, You know, we I feel like I didn't hide. If if they were here, I didn't know them. Abby and I were the only ones I would see out, really out on the river fishing. And so she started running a few trips for us. And then I, you know, Then I realized how there's a lot of other women that I'm starting to see come into this area and move here and there fishing. And, um, one day Hannah walked into the door. She was, I think, 21 or even 20 at the time and walked into the door, and she was just looking for a job and and I said, I didn't even really interview her. I said Yes, I just knew as soon as she walked in the

spk_1:   20:32
door, it was

spk_0:   20:33
like, This is this is this girl's it, like, this is this is it. And, um, and Abby eventually actually moved, and I got a job is the HR director for Boldak cider and it's kind of moved away from from guiding and Hand has really stepped in and kind of taken over as kind of like our head female guy. She has really, um, just taken off and become not only a good angler and a amazing guide, but just she's really been leading a lot of the charge and some of the things and kind of just helping me, um, create ideas and bring them to life. Um, And then we met. I met through some other mutual friends Katie Conn, who is amazing artist. She makes jewelry and is of Silver Smith and just super talented and pretty much everything she does. She's just a naturally very talented person on. And she's a great by angular. And I had met her and we had connected. And I said, Hey, you should consider, you know, kind of, you know, guidance, um, trips. Because I knew at the time she was, you know, running. You know, she was she was fishing a lot. Um, and she just said, Yeah, that would be great. So worked with her a little bit. She started guiding some trips and she hasn't got a whole lot you. She's a new mom, and she runs her silversmith business, but she guides for his part time, and that is just a great team. It's really cool to have a team of women. Um, you know, strong women that have the same passions as you dio kind of around you. It makes makes kind of running the business a lot easier.

spk_1:   22:09
Yeah, I bet. Well, you know your story resonates with with me and also talking about your other female guides because I'm a father of three girls. And so it's always nice when you have role models that are out there because, I mean, I have the daughter. Some are very interested in the outdoors. Others are interested in sports, tennis, these sorts of things. But it's so nice to have strong female role models, especially being the dad of three girls. So what makes your area right where you are? The French broad watershed so special for fly fishing? What makes it special and unique?

spk_0:   22:54
So for me, I love the diversity of it. There's many reasons why we are a great hut like hub, and this is a great spot for fly fishing. But for me, I think that diversity of it is what makes it really special. Um, you could be trout fishing in the morning. You can catch musky at lunch. You can go bass fishing before dinner. Um, there's just so many different species that you can catch on a fly rod within 20 minutes of our shop or my front door, Um, and you can catch. You know, you can really get on these high elevation trout streams and catch native Brooktrout. You can drop down to the delayed harvest section and catch, You know, the stocked rainbows and brown trout and the stock Brooktrout, you can, you know, get on the Davidson and and catch wild browns. Um, you know, a big wild browns, which is kind of known for you could hop on the French broad and catch musky. Um, big musky.

spk_1:   23:56
Don't you all have a stretch of river that is is private? Did I Did I see that somewhere on your social media posts?

spk_0:   24:06
Yes. So we have two stretches of private water and how that kind of works. There's a lot of confusion, and a lot of you know there's a lot of plus and minuses and two sides to the argument on private water. But basically what we've done is we've worked with landowners who owned both sides of the river on stretches of waivable water that you know there's not a lot of boats or, you know, it's not got a lot of traffic and that they have historically not allowed anybody to fish their water because it's private property. They don't want a lot of people on their property, which I completely understand. So we've worked with property owners like that, um, who have water. And we've leased it? No. We released those sections from them, and then we manage the fishing. We manage the stream banks and, um, kind of stopped the fish and manage the fish, and it just allows us to have, um Our biggest reason we do it is to the busier we've gotten, um, and around here, fly fishing in the last six or seven years has really grown. There's a lot more anglers out on the water. So we've we just, you know, we we tried to promote our present waters a way for us to people of the pressure off the public water to not add to the pressure that our public streams air getting.

spk_1:   25:24
It's really sort of a remote, individualized experience. It sounds like

spk_0:   25:29
Yes, exactly. So we, um you know, it's it's really good for beginners to because they don't have the pressure or they don't feel the urgency of, you know, fishing around other people or make messing up on other people being around or having to fish, you know around other people because it does take a look. Does take a while to learn how to interact with other people on the water. I'm especially in more crowded places, Um, so it provides the opportunity for begins to get in. It's in some time on the river, um, with the guide and not have and it takes that whole. You know, it takes all that out of the question.

spk_1:   26:06
And then, in addition to the fly fishing that you all offer, um, the actual experience of the fly fishing there's there's a whole education right there. I mean, there's a component of education that you put together. You call it your 101 or two? A one. Your 301?

spk_0:   26:21
Yes, that we, uh you know, when the flapping program personal, My mom first, you know, started putting the black fishing together. She was working with a business partner that come yet who was a big fly fly fisherman. And, you know, they decided that they really wanted to focus their fly fishing program on the educational piece. So they created and designed the school of Trial, which gave people the opportunity to kind of spend the day with the guide learning, but not and the rigging And ah, um, Entomology, the waiting safety conditions, how to monitor conditions on the river and then also the basics to be able to kind of hit the stream on your own. So basically, what the goal was is to get people you know, hate this class once or twice and spend those that time with the guide and then be able to have the confidence to be able to fish some on their own. And we, we kind of use that set up for, you know, since the beginning, since they kind of school a trout. And in the past year or two, my goal has been really to take that and expand it. So take that educational piece and make it more beyond just beginners. Let's say that somebody fly fishing and fly fish for 30 years, but they might need help with one, you know, one specific point, um, or one you know, they want to learn this new technique. Um, and so Chris and I, which is is my styles. We he's our He's an hour here. Um, you know, talk for about a year on what that would look like. Um, and we had some ideas down. And then again, for some reason, I just feel like the right people, whether their guest or employees find their way into our parking lot. One day I'm sitting here and, um, Patrick Weaver, who have known and has a new and, you know, I knew him from around use. Angler knew it was a guy. His work for the wildlife resource is commissioned. Just happened. What said, Hey, you know, I'm, you know, changing things up, gonna step away from the wildlife resource is, you know, commission, um, for now and was interested in, you know, guiding. And I said, Perfect timing, like this is view. And he's He's an educator. He is. He is, He's a teacher. You just he gives off that presence. He has that, you know, he has that teacher presents to him already. Um and he I told him kind of what we had looked at and let him see what we were working on. And he kind of took that. And Bill are knew in advance, like we call it Headwaters Fly fishing. Siri's. So it's our headwater school of trout. And so now we have that he's running, He's he's doing the majority of those classes and running our educational program now. And I've already learned so much just being in the shop, listening to his classes. It's been fun because I'm like, I didn't know that like, how did I not know that it's been really? It's been really cool.

spk_1:   29:19
Now that is cool. That is cool. Um, so if if I mean I know fly fishing is such a huge part of it and obviously it's a it's a passion of yours. But that's not all that you all offer. You all have other services that are open for families. I mean, you have canoeing, kayaking, stand up paddleboarding trips. You have all different types of family friendly activities that you all offer at your outpost too, don't you?

spk_0:   29:44
We do. So, you know, way started. You know what we what this business is definitely built on is our paddling is you know, the nice thing about the French broad is you know, a lot of times when people think of river trips, they think of white water paddling trips which are a ton of fun. They think of being overrun, like the Nana, Halo River, the echoey or the pigeon and places where you know you got seven or eight people in a raft and you know you're going down Class three for Whitewater. Um, and that's like I said, it's a lot of fun. But what we wanted to offer was, you know, that skill back trip that, um, a new paddler. As long as they can swim, they can go on our trip so you can have families that have those new kids that they're young kids, that they're wanting to get out on the river. And you can also take Grandma with you. You know, if Grandma wants to go, she's probably not, you know, some of them do you know my grandmother Whitewater paddles? But, you know, some some of your older people want one a little bit more relaxed, and they want to feel a little bit more comfortable. And now everybody also wants to be like in groups or guided. They kind of want to be able to be on the water with just their group or just themselves, and kind of go with their own pace And that's what our paddling program was, you know, built on. And that's what this upper section of the French broad offers is just that chance for people to do their own sort trip their self guided. We do have guides available. They want them, but the most. The majority of, um, are people getting out on the water and kind of exploring on their own. Um, and that's just a really great trip for families.

spk_1:   31:15
That's fantastic. Now stand up Paddleboarding. Is that something that has just been added recently? I know that it's just kind of catching on, you know, globally. But

spk_0:   31:24
wait, we did some. We rent more stand up paddleboards than anything for You know, there's a lot of lakes in our area, and people want to kind of come and read them and taken them on their own because they're here for the week and they're staying at the lake. Um, or they're renting a house in one of the late communities. So that's a majority diverse up offerings. We had ah, sup instructor that was doing some sup yoga and some like destination trips, But she actually just moved recently to Charleston eso we haven't been running a lot of trips since she's moved. We just rent them for people.

spk_1:   31:59
That's a great service. So you do. You read the other equipment as well? The rent, canoes and kayaks beyond just your trips?

spk_0:   32:07
Yes. So we do. We do a lot of Reynolds, especially for the paddle trail, so you can put it in our store and you can paddle the entire French Broad River. And there's campsites all along the way. It's one of the first blue ways it might be the first leeway in North Carolina. I think it actually waas um, where you can You can stay at the campsites and paddle the entire, you know, an entire river till, like Douglas, Tennessee. Um, we do a lot of rentals for that. So a lot of people will come and rent our boat for four or five days, and they do different sections of the river, and we helped them with shuttles. Um, and they are canoes or kayaks. Either one.

spk_1:   32:44
Very nice. Very nice. And then I guess the other service that you have, if you can call it that, is you have a pretty unique tap room, and you And I know I've seen food trucks there too.

spk_0:   32:57
Yes. So we em Yes, I always comptel the date of the tapper. And because the year we decided to open up a tap room that summer that same year, I decided to get pregnant. I don't know what was in my head then, but so we I know that I know the age of the tap room, because this anybody does. My kid, Um, but way opened up the tap room four years ago now. So this will be our fourth year, Um, opening up and it has grown. It's been the coolest thing. You know, I've never that we like growth, my kind of something that my family always talks about. We love growth. We love to get bigger. We love, but we like to do it at a good pace. You know, sometimes when things get too big too fast, it it could be a little stressful. But the tap room has been like the coolest growth we've ever seen. It started out. Just you know, we had this, You know, the original building. Our original outfitter store was in this small building that's now the tap room In 2008 we expanded the outfitting service and started the fly fishing program and built a new shop. And so, since 2008 that has just been a storage building and finally said, like, we've got to do something with this building out here. And the beer scene, of course, was coming on. You know, we had a lot of local breweries in the area. Um, you know, it was just picking up. You know, you saw a couple different, like something like the hub had a but in a little brewery in their bike shop. So it kind of started becoming a little thing, and we were like wheat. We we've had to turn this little tap. This has gotta be a tap room. It's the coolest happen. So we got it and, um, put in a keg aerator just to see what was gonna happen. And within six months, we needed order another keg aerator cause we couldn't keep up with nice, you know? And then we ended up finding out the ah Tapper manager who's Cora and she's been with us now for for almost three years on, and she's really built it up when we expanded toe wine and cider. And then the food trucks, um, have been parking here as well. They come in and park in the season there. We normally have a few trucks seven days a week. Um, so people can grab some food and grab a beer, and then we have some nice outside seating with picnic tables over by the river. And that's my favorite thing that the tap room has brought here is, um it's been a It's been a blessing and yet still a little bit of a curse, because all of our paddlers are, you know, people that go out on our trip and our our fly fishing customers. You know, it used to be that people would come back off their trip, you know, change and head out of here. And so they weren't hanging out long. They would, you know, they just didn't say much. But now you know, we got people to go out on the river at nine or 10 o'clock. We pick him up around noon and they're still here for five o'clock hanging out, going the place. And it's our parking has definitely become, um, on issues. So Now we just need a little bit more parking. But I love looking out my office window and just seeing the family sitting out there. You know, Mom and Dad drinking a beer and the kids over there playing and skipping rocks in the river. Um, it's just is it's a really cool vibe.

spk_1:   36:06
Yeah, no doubt. And I've, you know, just where you are just being on the banks, um is so relaxing. And that's that's of course you were close the first time I found you. But when I drove by, uh, as we did, we went and we just walked down to the river and you could just be an exists and, you know, just just relax and take it easy. So that's one more way to sort of keep your folks on property. And then you can get him to go into your shop and spend money because you have a fully stocked pro shop.

spk_0:   36:37
Yes, that's and that was another thing is we? You know, we used to carry more just like incidental, um, gear and some T shirts and stuff, and then we really kind of been able to grow our retail a lot more because people are just hanging around more of their shopping more. Um, and they're, you know, they're coming back to us because they trust that we carry good stuff that we know what we're selling. Um, we're really honest with people. Like when people come in and they they wanna, you know, a certain fly rotter real, or they're looking for a canoe or kayak. You know, we're really honest with people, and they like that. And if we don't, it's not. We don't have what they need. We're not going to just push them into something else. We're gonna, you know, take our time. If we have to order something form or reach out to some of the friends in our community toe help get them what they need. Um, So people are realizing that now that you know, we do have gear and apparel and they're coming in, they're shopping in there. Kind of, um, putting us on their list of places, toe, get the stuff that they need for their adventures.

spk_1:   37:37
I love that support local whenever we can.

spk_0:   37:40
Yes, expecially now, especially

spk_1:   37:43
now. That's exactly right. Talk a little bit about your opening. I know the governor just announced We're moving into phase one. How does that affect your business? And what are you always plans for operating in the in the foreseeable future?

spk_0:   38:01
Yes, that we've been closed now for, um, 58 days. We actually closed a week early from the governor's order because it was literally like Fourth of July. It was amazing from a business standpoint, but I was here Friday. I was working and, you know, I had my staff here, and it was 1/4 of July traffic, and I just looked around and we didn't, You know, nobody at that time there was none of the peak ee or any. There was no guidelines out for what we should be doing. This was back in the first or second week of March. It was more like, you know, just cover your cough. That was that was all they were basically saying. And I remember I went home and I told Mom and Dad I was like, I think we need to close. I don't think we are safely do. This is just not a good situation for for community to be in, for staff to be in and for our customers to begin. So we made that decision to close. And since then, we've realized, you know, now that all this you know, there's a lot of resource is out now that can tell us, you know, what we need to be doing to protect ourselves and to protect our customers. And we've been able to figure out how we're gonna put those into place, which means we're not gonna look the same. You know where it's going to be different. And it's hard, especially for seasonal businesses like us who make a lot of our money and three or four short months, you know, and then we need that money to get through the winner. But now you know we're not gonna be able Teoh do 200 to 300 people a day on the river. We're gonna have to really cut that back even less than 50% capacity. And you know that's scary. But at the same time, you know we want to continue providing and being a resource for people to get outdoors because it's so important, right? Like it's just it's important for people to be getting some sunshine and getting some fresh air and getting outside Onda. We want Teoh be here for people and help them be able to do that. But it's definitely gonna look different than then we've ever looked before and we've We've been able to kind of work together as a family to figure out how we can do that. And we're excited to be able to start doing that. We're opening up the shop tomorrow. Um, at a limited capacity are fly fishing is starting back tomorrow and then next week, we're gonna put in our paddling program.

spk_1:   40:22
Okay, Very good. Very good. And you touched on something that I always love to ask our guests. And it means a lot to me, too. And I know that it does to you talk to us about how fly fishing and being in the outdoors is such mental nourishment and physical nourishment for you. I mean, it's it's so important. There's so much research. This is out there. If you've been in the outdoors for any length of time, you don't need the research to tell you how you fell you how you will be feeling. But tell to me about the mental aspect of just being in the outdoors and what fly fishing means to you.

spk_0:   41:01
So, you know, again, I just was so lucky. Teoh be born and raised right here in this community, like 10 minutes from where I'm sitting now, Um, and I was so lucky to be able this was my childhood, right? So being outside, being in the woods, whether it was hunting with my dad or working in the garden or out on the river, I just didn't really know what life, not outside. Waas. And I still really don't where I've never moved. I've never lived in a big city. I've never, um, been, you know, in an apartment, you know, living in apartments. So I don't really know what life is like without being able to get outside. But since all this has happened and we have been staying home a lot more um, it just dawned on me like how important it waas for to be able to see open, you know, to be able to breathe fresh air and to be ableto see the sky and get that sunshine, get that moonshine and just, like, be physically embraced in the outdoors. And it is it's just such a. I think it's just so important for people to be able and at some capacity, whether it's the, you know, Central Park or, you know, the Appalachian Mountains. Just be able to touch some dirt and know that there is something that we're just like a speck of it, you know, like there's this Earth is so big and nature itself is just so much bigger than we are and so much more complex, and it can take care of itself so much better than we can take care of ourselves. And it has that healing nature to it because it heals itself and it can heal us. Um, you know, I've been pretty open with with my story from, you know, from college and on through college is yeah, I was really competitive, really into sports, which means I've been unhealthily hard on myself. Um, I'm battled with some eating disorders and some anxiety issues because of those eating disorders. Um, and whenever I get those feelings, they you know it's mental, you know, it's it's definitely a mental health issue, and you know, when you kind of live with that forever. So now I know like whenever those feelings come up Whenever I, you know, get some triggers or something, I know I can. It I can help myself by getting on the water. So I'll look at Chris. I'll be like, I need to go fishing or it doesn't have to be fishing. I just need to go stand in a river. Um, I need to, like, see, visually see that water moving Because there's something about moving water that reminds you that. Okay, it's you can be renewed. You know, life keeps me. You can overcome this. New new things were coming. Um, you know, let things go downstream and, like, look upstream and just be excited of what's coming. Um, and that's just all that that's been so important in my journey with recovery and staying in recovery is spending time outside and reminding myself that those little things and and I always tell people to talk to a lot of my girlfriends and, you know, we're all in different situations right now, but I remind them all the time, like you gotta get outside. I have a true friend who's eight months pregnant. You know, I couldn't imagine me pregnant, right now. It just scares me so much. Um, but she's eight months pregnant and she'll call me and she'd like. I'm going on a walk and I'm not good like that's awesome. Like, let's talk while you're on your walk, Let's get some fresh air And, um, it's just we all. I think we can all find something in nature that helps us be better people and improve ourselves

spk_1:   44:43
without question. And that is why I always love to end these with that perspective, because the people that, um, know that and understand it, um, and have experienced it. It's life changing for them. And I think that more and more people are learning that just like you said, you may not be aware of it, but when you're cooped up, you really begin to realize how much you need to be outside. If it's sitting on the back deck, feeling the wind blow seeing the sunrise. I mean, all those things that we take for granted are just so incredibly important. I could do a whole another two hours with you just on that one subject, because I feel like we have some similarities there, and I come from a sports background too, And the pressures you could put on yourself. And, um And, you know, since all of this shutdown is happening, I actually coach high school baseball, Aziz. Well, and since this has happened, um, there's been a re a renewal in a refresh, if you will, even for me. Just being aware of maybe hyper aware of how much I've missed, um, the outdoors. And so I appreciate you sharing all of that. That's that's huge. Well, I do appreciate your time today. I love the fact that you are leading an amazing company. Um, I think that you are so wonderful for not only the the people who come to fly fish, but also the other people for recreation, for the canoeing, for rentals, for, for camping, for the tap room. I mean, it's such a great business that you all offer, and I just I celebrate you. I celebrate what you all are doing, and and I have thoroughly enjoyed getting to know you a little bit more.

spk_0:   46:31
Oh, thank you so much. Um, really happy to be here. Appreciate you. Reaching out to me has been so much fun. My first podcast, I think so.

spk_1:   46:39
Hey, Well, it's only my third. So we're doing well. No, but I really, really, really do appreciate you all right, Jessica? Last thing. How can listeners who want to find out more about Headwaters Outfitters find you?

spk_0:   46:52
Yes. Our website. We have a great website. Its headwaters outfitters dot com. Um, you can reach us. You can learn about us on there. You could reach us on that website. You can You can call us off of that website. Um, you can also follow us on Facebook, Headwaters Outfitters, outdoor adventures, um, on instagram Headwaters Outfitters. And then, of course, um, if you you know, you can also follow me on instagram it double Hall of Allah. You can message me. Um, you can email me at Jessica headwaters outfitters dot com Always, you know, kind of always here. It's a family business. So we, you know, we try to get back with everybody is because we can. And even if people have questions about the area, um, or the fishing or the paddling in the area, any and all questions just reach out. We're glad to help.

spk_1:   47:49
Thanks for tuning in to today's episode with Jessica Whitmire, director of operations at Headwaters Outfitters. We hope you enjoy the show. I encourage you to check out our website exploration local dot com. We'll have show notes, plus a full gallery of pictures from today's episode. I really think you're gonna enjoy that. If you like what you've heard from our podcast so far, we really encourage you to hit the subscribe button and also turn on your notification so that when we have new episodes drop, you'll be one of the very first people to hear about it. Well, that's going about. Do it for today's episode until we meet again Way encourage you to wander far but explored local.