Exploration Local
Exploration Local
Waypoint Adventure: Transforming Lives through Accessible Adventures, with Adam Combs
Adam provides an inside look into Waypoint's customized adventure programs tailored for a variety of groups, from schools to social service agencies. Hear about their exciting collaboration with North Carolina State Parks, which has significantly expanded access to outdoor activities for marginalized communities. We discuss the vital infrastructure and training that ensure these adventures are safe and inclusive for everyone involved.
Gain insight into how inclusive outdoor activities are revolutionizing societal perceptions and fostering a culture of accessibility. Listen to inspiring stories of individuals overcoming incredible challenges, and understand the broader impact of the "dignity of risk" concept. Finally, we share how you can support Waypoint's mission through participation, volunteering, or donations, and invite you to be part of creating a world where everyone can experience the joy and empowerment of the great outdoors.
Mike Andress
Host, Exploration Local
828-551-9065
mike@explorationlocal.com
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In this episode, I sit down with Adam Combs, co-founder of Waypoint Adventure and director of Waypoint Adventure, north Carolina. Adam reveals the incredible mission behind Waypoint Adventure, a groundbreaking organization dedicated to making outdoor experiences accessible to individuals with disabilities. We talk about the cutting-edge world of adaptive adventure equipment and programs that make inclusivity in outdoor activities a reality, from specialized off-road wheelchairs to innovative kayaks. We'll explore the essential infrastructure and training required to utilize these tools effectively. Adam also shares the exciting expansion of Waypoint Adventure into Western North Carolina, a region brimming with opportunities for inclusive recreation, and we learned about the organization's collaborative efforts with local schools, social service agencies and North Carolina State Parks to design customized adventures that meet specific group needs and promote community building. Adam's passion shines as he talks about fostering a more inclusive community by normalizing the participation of individuals with disabilities in activities like rock climbing, hiking and mountain biking. Find out how you can support Waypoint Adventure's noble mission through participation, volunteering or donations. I'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 1:You're listening to Exploration Local, a podcast designed to explore and celebrate the people and places that make the Blue Ridge and Southern Appalachian Mountains special and unique. My name is Mike Andrus, the host of Exploration Local. Join us on our journey to explore these mountains and discover how they fuel the spirit of adventure. We encourage you to wander far, but explore local, let's go. Well, I'm excited to have Adam Combs in the studio with me today. He is the co-founder of Waypoint Adventure and he's the director of Waypoint Adventure North Carolina. Adam, thanks so much for dropping into the studio. I cannot wait to unpack this conversation today.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1:You know we were talking a little bit before we started recording earlier that our guests, the people who listen to this podcast, they know that we talk a lot about the benefits that can be derived from being in the outdoors, be it the physical benefits, the emotional benefits, the mental benefits, all of those kind of benefits people get. And I was reading in your information one of the founders and we'll kind of unpack this a little bit, but Dan Minnick, who was also the other co-founder of Waypoint Adventure he said this and I really thought this was pretty profound If people never experience genuine challenge and see themselves successfully overcoming it, they're less likely to challenge themselves and more likely to avoid challenging situations. The result is a missed opportunity to grow. And, adam, I know that I'm preaching to the choir with you, but if I could ever think of a population that really needed these types of opportunities to grow, it's the demographic that you serve, that you all serve at Waypoint Adventure, and I love to just kind of start there a little bit.
Speaker 1:What is Waypoint Adventure? What is it that you all do at Waypoint Adventure? And I love to just kind of start there a little bit. What is Waypoint Adventure? What is it that you all do. How did you get involved with it? And then there's so much more for us to unpack.
Speaker 2:Mike, I'll usually start this conversation with our mission statement. Waypoint's mission is to challenge people with disabilities to discover their purpose, talents and strengths through the transforming power of adventure. That's the mission statement and the two parts that I'll usually call out in that number one challenging people with disabilities. So Waypoint runs adventure programs for people with a wide range of disabilities physical, intellectual and developmental, social, emotional. Regardless of the level of someone's disability, we want to say yes.
Speaker 2:We want to barring some medical condition or a doctor saying this isn't safe, or, you know, parents saying this isn't safe, or the individual saying I'm not interested in taking that risk. We want to say yes to them, so wide you know. Serving folks with a wide range of disabilities is the first thing, and then the second thing is discovering purpose, talents and strengths. Mike, I mean I don't. We haven't talked too much about our personal story. I haven't heard your personal story, but for me it's been through adventure. It's been through, you know, pushing myself, testing my limits, challenging myself in the outdoors, rock climbing programs, multi-day backpacking trips, you know those kinds of things that that have taught me a lot about myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Starting from a very young age. You know, and I do genuinely believe that adventure, especially when done within a supportive community of people, teaches us about ourselves.
Speaker 1:So true.
Speaker 2:We often talk about.
Speaker 2:It's at the intersection of challenge and support is where learning really happens.
Speaker 2:So if we can provide the appropriate amount of whether it be physical support, intellectual and developmental support, a way of communicating where folks understand it well and a way of providing opportunities for people to communicate with us so that we understand them, whether it be identifying the exact right location for a particular individual or a group, you know, those are some of the examples of specific ways that we provide and kind of surround folks with a level of support and make them feel like, okay, maybe I can actually engage in this challenging activity.
Speaker 2:And we believe when that level of support is put in place, folks are more apt and more willing to challenge themselves and it's through that challenge that they walk away with that kind of either that aha moment that they've had themselves, or whether it's us spending some time asking the right questions at the end to say, what did you get out of this? Like, yes, it was fun, we all had a blast, but we believe there's something deeper that happened with you today, and so if you can help identify what that is, or if you can identify what that is, let's get at that a little bit. What is something that you experienced today that you can take back into your everyday life? You know things like confidence and self-esteem and a better understanding of what it means to work as part of a team. We believe those experiences and that learning happens on these adventures, and now people walk away from our programs being able to hopefully apply some of that back into their everyday life.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's amazing. I wonder if we can sort of talk a little bit about where you all actually got started. This came out of an. It was sort of an offshoot of something that you were doing up in the Northeast, and I'd love to kind of talk about that a little bit. How did all this get started?
Speaker 2:My undergraduate degree is in outdoor education from Montreat College right here in Black Mountain. Pretty soon after that I ended up at an organization in Tennessee, over in the Tri-Cities area in Bluff City, specifically called Riversway Outdoor Adventure Center. And Riversway Outdoor Adventure Center at that point in time ran adventure programs that were accessible to people with disabilities, and that was the first time I had the chance to work alongside this community of people. To work alongside this community of people, and probably the first time I I don't know, not the first time, but I don't know. It just was one of those jobs where it just kind of clicked. Oh, my goodness, there's a real. There's real impact happening here and we had formed a partnership with the Tri-Cities Public School System. When we were running, we called it Adventure Incentive and if students were meeting certain markers behavioral markers they were bringing their homework back to school, their truancy rates were going down, they were actually showing up to school, things of that nature were happening then they would earn these big adventure trips. Okay, and it worked. I mean, truancy rates were declining, students' grades were going up, they were showing better behavior in the classroom and out of the classroom. It was working, and for me that was this aha moment of oh my goodness, we can merge this experiential learning, experiential education model, with a public school system or this nonprofit with a public school system, bringing in a unique program and it bring about good results.
Speaker 2:And so I ended up going back to get my master's in special education from Appalachian State University and my hope was I want my own classroom. I want to be able to do, I want to build deep relationships with one classroom of students and be able to use some of these experiential learning models in the classroom. And that was 2006 to 2008. And so that was right when, if you're familiar with, the federal mandate of no Child Left Behind was being mandated on schools and I was watching as I was doing my research work. I was watching teachers covered up in paperwork trying to do all this reporting. It wasn't. It wasn't. That program wasn't necessarily rolled out super well and was difficult to implement. And I'm watching teachers covered up in paperwork and I'm like that's not what I want to do. That's not why I got into this. And so I kind of put the brakes on and did a scan of the country. Who else out there is using adventure programming, working with students in the special education population in hopes of bringing about good, you know, improved social and character skills. And I came across an organization called Outdoor Explorations, ended up getting a job up there, moved to Boston in 2008 and got started right away, you know, partnering with the Boston Public Schools running adventure programs for their special education departments.
Speaker 2:A little bit of time goes by 2009,. First quarter of 2009. We walked into the office one day and executive director sat us down and said well, we've lost funding and we're closing down. It really felt like kind of a gut punch because our team had really just started ramping up and we're making these great relationships and, you know, we're seeing a lot of fruit from the programming we were developing. Walked out of the office that day and the guy I was working most closely with was Dan Minnick. We were kind of boots on the ground designing and running programs and he looked at me. He's like dude, this can't end, got to keep doing it. We got to keep this going and that organization at that time had 20 years of history but they were wrestling the downturn in the economy in 2008 and various other things, Right.
Speaker 2:So we, very naively in our early to mid twenties, started a nonprofit. So Waypoint was founded in 2010. On the backs of outdoor explorations and the history that that organization had. We still I mean, if Dan was sitting here, he'd say this too we still very much feel like we're stumbling through this. You know we don't really know exactly what we're doing, but we're trying our best right, you're passionate.
Speaker 2:And we're surrounding ourselves, trying to surround ourselves with people that know and that we can ask questions of and can help work alongside us to help keep pushing this ball forward. But, mike, there's a need for this Again. Going back to my story, I have personally been impacted and, to this day, when I need to think clearly about something, what do I do? I go for a long hike or I get on my mountain bike and I just ride right Like it's therapeutic. It helps me decompress, it helps me understand, you know, and be able to unpack certain things that are going on in life. It helps me understand other people better. It builds deeper bonds, as we do, you know. Experience these adventures together. Everybody needs to experience that yeah.
Speaker 2:And so the sad part is there is a large population of people, and some would say the largest minority in the world, is often left out of experiences like this because of a lack of access, whether it be physical access, intellectual access, lack of invitation.
Speaker 2:I know a lot of people in this space right now are talking about the importance of inviting people, even though for many folks there isn't any sort of extreme adaptation that needs to happen. They just need someone to say hey, come on, I'm going to take you out, we're going to go and you're going to get a chance to experience something like you've never experienced before.
Speaker 1:You know Well it's amazing because you talk about I mean you just kind of hit on it when you talked about that there's a large population that can't, and those numbers, when I read them, were pretty powerful.
Speaker 2:I actually have the stats right here in front of me 16% in the world, one in six.
Speaker 1:In the US it's 27% one in four people have a disability and in North Carolina it's 29%.
Speaker 2:It's that high One in three, wow, and that's a broad spectrum right, if you think about the spectrum of people with disabilities physical, intellectual, social, emotional. There's a lot of more extreme, severe disabilities and some not so much, but people who have been identified as having a disability 29% one in three in the state of North Carolina.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, wow, just real quick, at a high level. What are the types of disabilities that you all are working with? Because it's not, and it's pretty, I mean, it's pretty wide breadth of disabilities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very wide breadth. So you know, physical disabilities like spinal cord injuries, folks with varying levels of cerebral palsy, those types of things, any kind of condition that would cause someone to need some sort of mobility device, assistive device, strokes we had a man on a hike recently that just had a stroke and was able to walk a little bit. We took him on a hike out at Chimney Rock, actually in partnership with Chimney Rock State Park. Yeah, so folks with varying levels of physical disability, intellectual and developmental disabilities like Down syndrome, and folks with autism, sensory disabilities, folks who are deaf or blind. We've actually started a pretty cool partnership with a local organization called Bravo Blue Ridge Adventures. Vision Optional is the name of their organization. Really cool organization.
Speaker 2:Started out of a teacher in the blind and visually impaired department in the local public school system. We've been doing a bunch of hiking and kayaking programs with them. We have a tandem cycling program on the books with them this summer. We've been doing some team building programs. So, sensory disabilities and then have a history of working with folks with mental and emotional disabilities. We run regular programming with Boston University Center for Psychiatric Rehab.
Speaker 2:Great chance to get, you know, get folks together that are going through the process of kind of mental health therapy, giving them a chance to just go for a walk in the woods and experience what it feels like to be outside and be together with other people in a very kind of low pressure, low stress environment, taking some time to sit and listen to the birds and the trees and you know all the things that come along with that kind of slower pace, while at the same time learning some basic skills that would allow them to be able to do this without waypoint. You know, I don't know if this is gonna be one of your questions, but I'm gonna go on a little bit of a tangent here because that made me think of something. Dan often says this. Dan Minnick, who you quoted a second ago, often says Adam, our biggest job is to work ourselves out of a job.
Speaker 1:I love that Right.
Speaker 2:The goal, and that story about Boston University Center for Psychiatric Rehab made me think about that. The goal is that we as a community and I think we're moving in this direction, by the way would be more accessible to people with disabilities. Right, not only just wider doors and ramps, but we would just have an understanding of things like, you know, autism and how autism impacts people's behavior and how can I be a better friend and community member to folks with autism. You know, same with various other disabilities. But the hope is that our community in general, and definitely the outdoor adventure community, would just be more understanding and welcoming and open and team members of those you know agencies would just know how to work with them and would have the equipment in place to be able to say, yeah, we can accommodate your needs, right.
Speaker 2:So the hope is that eventually we get I mean, it's a big goal, right, yeah, but we get to a place where we Waypoint isn't needed. We've worked ourselves out of a job. That's the goal.
Speaker 1:I think it's a great goal. It seems to me like it's going to take a little bit of time to get there and people like you and what you do and what your organization does is critical in that in-between time. Like I don't even well, it's definitely critical, but it almost seems like it's, it's like the necessary step. People like yourself and people like Ryan and people like Dan they all need those organizations, need to exist so that you can have that invitation. But one of the things also and you've mentioned it and it's in a lot of y'all's collateral and I've been inside your store or your office so I've seen the equipment, it's the adaptive equipment that's there.
Speaker 1:So there are people, I guess, who have some sensory disabilities, but then the people who really have some mobile disabilities, you all have been able to identify equipment that can be used for them and you use it in the field. It's not light, it's not cheap and it's not. It requires somebody knowing what they're doing with this equipment and it's something that you all do really, really well. And I'm wondering if you can kind of unpack that a little bit too, because, like, I love every picture that I look at. It's smile, smile, smile and somebody really loving life. But you see somebody belaying here. It's at an indoor climbing center and they're in their chair and they're belaying. But there's things that you all are doing for people that you're just going to take them out on a hike and they're not mobile. Why don't you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 2:We say access happens with infrastructure and invitation and the infrastructure is the equipment. You know, if an organization or an agency just purchases equipment and they have it there at the welcome center and they say, yeah, we've got it, this off-road wheelchair, unless someone's there to help people understand how the chair works, they understand the chair themselves, they understand how to help someone transfer from their personal chair into an off-road chair, they know the property or the facility well enough to know these are the places you can go easily independently and these are the places where you're going to need some assistance. And then, in those places where they need assistance, they know what that assistance looks like, right? So yes, there is a lot of infrastructure and training and understanding and knowledge needed to be able to make sure folks are supported appropriately.
Speaker 2:Thankfully, the adventure equipment world there's a lot of really cool innovation going on out there in terms of, you know, fully accessible kayaks. There's a company out of the Midwest called Creating Ability. Kevin Carr wonderful guy has created some really cool adaptive kayaking equipment that seat backs in the chairs that mimic someone's wheelchair seat, different styles of hand adaptation that help folks be able to grip and use a paddle to go kayaking All kinds of cool innovative kayaking equipment out there, a huge variety of off-road wheelchairs, both self-propelled chairs as well as passenger chairs. And yeah, you're right, it's not cheap. We do a lot of fundraising to help be able to purchase some of this equipment and make this equipment available through our programs and, you know, to folks who may want to come rent it or borrow it or that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:But there's a lot of really cool innovative equipment out there and it's continuing to. You know, innovate People are continuing to innovate. I mean, even Kevin with Creating Ability often says be using this equipment and let me know what's not working. You know, let me know if you have a new idea that we haven't thought about. People that are on the forefront of this equipment design are constantly trying to try new things and innovate new things and it's happening quickly so that folks, regardless of their ability level, are able to come.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and participate to the extent that they can.
Speaker 1:This program has only been in existence in Western North Carolina just for the last couple of years, right. So I love to kind of put a pin in that equipment piece, because I do want to come back to that, because I think that there's ways that people can get involved, and this may be one of the ways that people can get involved. This program Boston, it comes to North Carolina. You're the right person, ryan Carlson, also your deputy director, he was sort of the right person at the right time. Let's kind of go back in time, just really just the recent past, the last couple of years, and talk about you taking that from Boston then here into Western North Carolina where we have an immense and endless number of opportunities to recreate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So Waypoint was founded in Boston in 2010. And again, for some reason, 2014 is the date in my mind when Dan and I started talking about and, I think, realizing oh my goodness, there is something here and we've been able to build enough of an infrastructure and kind of a template for how this is done that I think we could pick this thing up and put it in other places around the country, based on the speed that it grew in New England and in Boston, realized there's a need for this, you know, in other places in the country. And so, yeah, and just about every year, at some point in the year, from 2014 on, this conversation would come up. You know, could we do it somewhere else? What would it look like? Who do we know? Where would we do it? And, having been from this area of the southeast, I grew up in Bristol, just over the mountain. You know, like I said before, every single time this conversation came up, I was like I know where we need to do it. Western North Carolina is the spot.
Speaker 2:And in 2022, the Boston Globe wrote an article about Waypoint. There was a lot of response to that article. A lot of people reached out curious about Waypoint, wanting to support Waypoint, and Dan and I reconnected over that article. He actually came down, we went, we did a big backpacking trip and just had lots of conversations about gosh. You know, we always dreamed about geographical expansion, talked a lot about it. You know, during that trip Dan went back to Boston, called me up a couple of days later and was like man. He said we have been able to put a bit of a nest egg aside as an organization. We have some funding set aside that we need to do something with. And he said I want us to think about and really kind of push on this dream that we always had of geographical expansion. Would you be interested in coming back on board and helping launch Waypoint North Carolina? And the answer was very quickly yes.
Speaker 2:Almost exactly one year ago we started the process of launching Waypoint North Carolina.
Speaker 2:I told Dan well, if we're going to do this, I need a partner, I need someone to work in this with me.
Speaker 2:And immediately thought of a good buddy of mine, ryan Carlson.
Speaker 2:And Ryan comes with 25 plus years of experience designing and leading and running adventure programs, big expedition programs around the world, and just has a deep understanding of what it means to not only put together a safe and effective adventure program, but effective in the sense that has a deep understanding of how do we use adventure as a way to bring about that aha moment, that learning and that that kind of personal growth, and how do we custom design and bring those two things together. Ryan has that deep understanding and so pretty quickly pulled him in and fortunately he was in a moment of transition and so the timing was right for him and so super glad to have him. And then we just recently hired our first full-time program coordinator, shelby Hampton. Shelby comes with lots of experience, both in the public school system and in the healthcare setting, as a CTRS, a certified therapeutic recreation specialist, so slowly starting to build what I believe is a super skilled and effective team for seeing this mission continue to grow here in Western North Carolina.
Speaker 1:Let's talk a little bit about some of the programs that you have held, some of the types of activities and, even if you haven't held an activity within this particular and I know you do hiking and biking and you do kayaking and climbing but some of the others that you do I love to hear about some of the first experiences, and you talked about Bravo, which is amazing, and Bravo has been on the show. I loved, absolutely love, having them here too. So, yeah, I just love to hear a little bit about what the last year has been like and some of the programs that you've done.
Speaker 2:So Waypoint runs programs in two formats open enrollment programs and custom group programs.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So open enrollment programs are dates that we put on the calendar and then we do our own advertising or maybe in partnership with other collaborators, we'll advertise these programs. Folks can go right on our website. They can click on a date and a program type that they want to sign up for and they sign up and so you end up getting on those open enrollment programs, this kind of mixed bag and mixed group of people with and without disabilities going out on an adventure together. Okay, super fun. Custom group programs are partnerships with already intact groups, so school, special education, classrooms or departments, social service agencies that are serving folks with disabilities, and those types of things where we actually go in and identify their goals.
Speaker 2:What do they want to get out of this? Right, it's the whole begin with the end in mind. Why adventure? Why kayaking, rock climbing, hiking, why do you feel like you want to bring your group on these experiences? What do you want to get out of this? And then we will go back and we will design a program specifically for that group. Both you know designing in, you know what type of equipment might be needed, where we might host the program, what adventure type is going to be most effective for bringing out those goals and then we kind of put all of that together in a very intentional way to hopefully bring about that goal. One example, and maybe to keep answering your question a little bit we just recently partnered with IC Imagine Charter School.
Speaker 1:Oh, very cool.
Speaker 2:They have occupational track, special education class in the high school and we had connected with them. They reached out, we had a phone call and they said we want to go on an indoor kayaking program, which is one of the program types that we offer. Okay, we want to go on an indoor kayaking program, which is one of the program types that we offer. Okay. And we're like, okay, great, you know, let's talk a little bit more. Tell us more about your students. What are you hoping to get out of this? Like you know, some groups, some custom groups, will say we just want to go have fun. That's really the big goal for us. Some groups say we want our students or clients, or whoever it is, to understand what it means to work together better or to be kind to one another, or what it means to persevere through hard tasks and come out on the other side Whether we complete we're able to complete that task or not. What does that feel like? Right? So we ask all these questions and say what are you really trying to get out of this? And the teacher we were talking to she's like we want to do an indoor kayaking program. I said, okay, great, so we got. We started, you know, having that deeper conversation and it turned out she really wanted them to learn how to work together better. This idea of teamwork was really the theme that kept coming out and Ryan very intuitively and quickly said this is that's great. You know, indoor kayaking is so much fun. If you really want to bring a bring out this idea of teamwork and if you want that to be what the students walk away with, we need to go rock climbing. And so we ended up. She was like the more we talked about it, she's like yeah, that sounds great. So we have this really fun little partnership with the Riveter Climbing Gym so we were able to coordinate with them to get gym space during the day and we designed this whole adventure day using the program type or adventure type of indoor rock climbing to bring about this theme of teamwork and what does it mean to work together with someone else. So that's that kind of custom designed model, I guess, is.
Speaker 2:You know, different adventure types. That Waypoint runs. We run adaptive hiking programs. So, as we talked about before, we have a variety of different off-road, different styles of off-road wheelchair to help folks with physical disabilities. You know, participate in the adventure of hiking. We go indoor and outdoor rock climbing. So we use climbing gyms for the indoor climbing programs and then a variety of other locations here in western North Carolina to go outdoor rock climbing. We do team building and ropes course programs. So if you've ever been on a team building where it's kind of a contrived group initiative, to talk about working together better or some of those social and character themes.
Speaker 2:So we have partnerships with both Montreat College and Warren Wilson College to utilize their ropes course and team building spaces.
Speaker 2:You do low and high ropes courses, low and high ropes courses, yep, and much of the adaptive equipment that we would use to help folks with physical disabilities go rock climbing is exactly what we use on those high ropes course programs for them to be able to participate in that adventure.
Speaker 2:We use local pools to participate in that adventure. We use local pools, we take boats into pools and we teach basic skills of kayaking and we talk about some of those social and character themes, if that's one of the things that the group is wanting to focus on. Otherwise, we're more focused on just the adventure itself and also that indoor rock climbing experience is a great kind of controlled environment for folks to get a sense of what it feels like to get in a boat, get in a boat in the water, float, maybe even practice. What's it going to feel like when I flip over and how do I get out? And, you know, flip back to the top in hopes that they feel a bit more comfortable to be able to go out on. Oh, and we're in the process of building a tandem cycling program.
Speaker 2:That's so cool in the process of building a tandem cycling program. That's so cool, yeah. So again, kind of continuing that theme of learning happens at the intersection of challenge and support. So much of kind of the foundational belief of Waypoint is that adventure is better when it's shared with other people, and we really push on this idea of community building and working together. And if we're going to go on this adventure, we're going to do it together. Tandem cycling is one of the ways that we hope to be able to do that. So not necessarily giving someone their own bike even though going on a solo bike with a group of people is also still a way of building community. There's something different about getting on a bike with someone else and working together to make that bike stay upright number one and go where you want it to go, and you're kind of you're attached together, so you get to know each other a little bit more, right.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:And you get to learn a little bit about each other's lives and talk a little bit about the fun of just going on a bike ride and you know what we're getting out of that. But you're, you're attached together, and so that's kind of the the reason we're pushing to grow this tandem cycling program.
Speaker 1:I love that and I guess in that too you also have from the participants level there's a level of sort of confidence and security that, okay, there is somebody that's on here, it's not just me I can sort of relax a little.
Speaker 1:Not completely, well, I guess you can relax and just enjoy the experience and not stress about whether or not I'm falling over or not. But yeah, that adds a whole nother element that I didn't even think of. I'm thinking of the okay we can propel and go forward, but it's the whole idea of balance and yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:We talk about this a lot and we have a. We also have a training that we offer to organizations and agencies. We've given several times locally, call it our inclusion and access training, but there's kind of three components that we believe go into all of Waypoint's programs and we unpack these in this training but we call it our CAP sauce C-A-P, community, access and preparation. And so community is trained, volunteers and skilled staff help create a community of belonging, and we believe people perform to their potential when they know they belong right. So that's that community piece. Access is both the physical and the cognitive supports that need to be in place for folks to be able to participate to the fullest.
Speaker 2:And then preparation is how do we define preparation? Preparation is people perform to their potential when they're mentally and emotionally prepared. And so the example I'll give sometimes is if you imagine yourself signing up for a surfing lesson and you go to the beach and the waves are huge and you walk out there and the instructor's like here's your wetsuit, here's your board suit up, we're going out in five minutes. What's your, what's your thought?
Speaker 1:Fear.
Speaker 2:Fear. How do I get my money back? I'm not doing this Right. Versus scenario number two you show up and he says hey, welcome, glad you're here. This is your wetsuit and your board. We're going to be using that later. We're going to spend the next 45 minutes right here on the beach. I'm going to show you everything you need to know. We're going to get you fully prepared to be able to go out and paddle out into those waves and, as a matter of fact, we're watching those waves pretty closely and we think they're supposed to die down. But if they don't, we're going to go right around the corner and we're going to paddle in the harbor in a much calmer. You know we're going to. We're going to practice paddling our board in a much calmer area before we actually go out into the surf break.
Speaker 1:Cool.
Speaker 2:Right, you feel a lot differently about stepping into that experience, right? I think tandem cycling having that person with them it's the same with like a tandem kayak, like a tandem kayak. Having another person in a boat with you that is competent and trained and ready to support whatever needs you might have, helps you feel more kind of mentally and emotionally prepared and ready to actually step into that adventure. That's another reason that we really want to push on growing this tandem cycling program is because we think it's a deeper invitation we think it's a deeper invitation.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, no doubt, yeah, oh, that's good. Okay, so amazing programs and amazing people. It doesn't come without a cost, though, and I'm sure that there's ways that people could get involved.
Speaker 2:My two easy ways for folks to get involved. Financially, 80% of our revenue comes from donors, whether that be individual donors, corporate support or foundation support. Foundation giving, our program prices or program fees cover about 20 to 25% of what it actually costs us to run these experiences and these adventures. And then the other thing is volunteers. We don't run solely on a volunteer model. We do have at least two, sometimes three, full-time paid trained staff who are actually running the program, and then those two or three folks are supported by volunteers, sometimes trained volunteers, sometimes new volunteers. The biggest need we have from volunteers is a smiling face, someone to come and just help us again create that sense of community. We're glad you're here. How can I help you? You and I are going to get to paddle in a boat together today. It's going to be so much fun. We've got instructors here to help us make sure where our boat goes straight to. You know, just having people that are willing and interested to just come jump in socially is is one of the biggest needs that we have.
Speaker 2:Of course, of course, if someone has, if they are a rock climber or they are a hiker or they are a kayaker and they already bring those skills, they'll use them on our programs and we need them on our programs. But we don't want people feeling like I don't know how to do all that stuff to be a barrier, because our real need is just come be a part of the group. Come help us create community and create a sense of belonging and make people feel comfortable and glad that we're there.
Speaker 1:That's a perfect segue actually into a wonderful program that you all are working on with the North Carolina State Parks.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you not only have volunteers, but you have the trained staff, people who are there that are helping people who come along to have these experiences that we're talking about as they enjoy the North Carolina State Parks. This is a really big deal. I mean a really big deal. I mean a really big deal, and I think one of the things you all has shared a quote with me from Victor Hugo there's nothing more powerful as an idea whose time has come, and if there was ever a program that seems to be definitive of this, it's that.
Speaker 2:And to me it sums up exactly what we're experiencing right now with Waypoint.
Speaker 2:I mean, we've been here for exactly a year in Western North Carolina and our calendar is already pretty much full.
Speaker 2:I mean, looking into the fall, we have some space for some new groups, but not much, and that's because everybody wants to experience these wonderful rivers, lakes, trails, rocks that we have here in Western North Carolina, and they should be experiencing that stuff. Waypoint has taken off in a way that we have here in Western North Carolina and they should be experiencing that stuff. Waypoint has taken off in a way that we didn't quite expect. One example of that is this North Carolina State Parks Partnership, and I'll back up a little bit too, mike, and say entities like the North Carolina State Parks are now saying, yep, we get it. We need to open our doors wider for some of these marginalized communities and folks that haven't historically had access to our parks and not just access but haven't had that invitation, and so one of the ways that they're doing that is by partnering with Waypoint. So we're doing four trainings for North Carolina State Park ranger, superintendents, staff, state park rangers, superintendents, staff. And then we're doing 13, question mark, 13 adventure programs for the North Carolina state parks.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:So eight kayaking programs split between Lake James and Lake Norman.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:A couple adaptive rock climbing programs happening at a couple of the parks and then some hiking programs in the fall happening at some of the parks. That press release hasn't quite gone out as we're sitting here right now, but it will be.
Speaker 2:They're building the skillset in their team internally right through these trainings that they're wanting us to do and that we're doing. And then they're bringing Waypoint in to help work alongside them, to market to the larger community to say, not only are we ready for you when you show up, but we want you to come on these days and we're going to actually take you on an experience, and so there'll be a mix of Waypoint staff, waypoint volunteers and state park ranger, superintendents, staff on these programs with us. So it's a huge move for the North Carolina State Parks and I'm super thankful to be a part of it, super excited to be a part of seeing not only seeing people with disabilities get access to the North Carolina State Parks or more North Carolina State Parks, but seeing that culture begin to change a little bit, in that people recognize that everybody needs access to these things, and so we've got to do our part to figure out how to make that happen, and the fact that the North Carolina State Parks is leading that conversation is a big deal.
Speaker 1:That is incredible. Did they come to you? Did you go to them? How did that relationship happen?
Speaker 2:You know where it happened was the Outdoor Economy Conference. Oh, no way. Yeah, okay, so we got a chance to meet Reed Wilson.
Speaker 1:Oh, no way, yeah, okay, so we got a chance to meet Reed Wilson and um. Sean McElhone is the.
Speaker 2:West district superintendent. Yeah, just phone calls started happening and emails started happening, and the other thing was this isn't new for us. So Waypoint has a really deep partnership with um, the Massachusetts DCR department of conservationreation, so the Massachusetts State Parks, and so when Sean and Reed and I met at Outdoor Economy Conference, I was quickly able to say, hey, listen, we're already doing this in Massachusetts in partnership with the state agency. I think we could replicate that down here if y'all are interested. And they both were like let's keep the conversation going.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. Yeah, reed's an amazing individual, I mean just amazing human being.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He's so incredible. I had the pleasure of having him actually on the show a couple of years ago at the Outdoor Economy Conference as we recorded it, and he's just humble. He is excited about everybody getting into the outdoors and obviously he's excited about the outdoors in general, being a member of think of the Sierra Club and others. Yeah, he's very much involved. What was the reception like from the state parks rangers and superintendents and staff? Was this something sort of new for them? Did they have to be sold on this idea? Were they just all in from the very beginning? What were those trainings like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, good question. So so far we've done two of our classroom trainings. We call it our inclusion and access training. It's about a two and a half hour, you know, roughly two to two and a half hour training around disability history. And you know, we even get into some real specific strategies that we use to help folks with intellectual and developmental disabilities get involved. And how do we design our programming, you know, in a way that is in line with universal design for learning and some things like that. So it's very much a classroom-based training. And then we'll have so we've done two of those and then we'll have two more skills-focused trainings for a team of folks from the parks an adaptive kayaking training and an adaptive rock climbing training. That'll happen. That rock climbing training will happen in the fall 35 plus rangers and superintendents and park staff have come through those two classroom sessions and Mike, the last one, was supposed to be again.
Speaker 2:it's a two to two and a half hour training. It was almost four hours.
Speaker 1:Questions. Oh man, they were so engaged.
Speaker 2:Everybody's so excited. The responses we've gotten on our evaluation afterwards was we're so glad this is happening.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:So they, you know, I don't know, you know in terms of Sean's job for you know, kind of communicating this to his teams and saying, hey, this is what's happening. I don't know what that's been like, but from our perspective, everybody's in, they're all in. What can we do? What gates do you need? Access into? The superintendent at Crowder's Mountain was even like hey, I can meet you there with a side-by-side and we can help shuttle folks up on a side-by-side, if that'd make it more accessible. Right, so they've. They've been rolling out the red carpet. So far it's. It's been really awesome to be a part of.
Speaker 1:But is this a model that's sort of catching fire across the country right now, Do you know? Or is this happening in a few select places?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I you know with state parks, I know big federal agencies. I mean the work that Catalyst is doing in partnership with the Great Smoky.
Speaker 1:Mountains.
Speaker 2:National Park is a great example of national federal agencies picking up on this need for accessibility. There's some organizations out west that have deep partnerships with national forests and national parks out there. But yeah, I do think we're seeing more and more federal agencies, land managers, folks saying we need to do more, you know, in terms of again the infrastructure, thinking about trail building. I mean, g5 is a perfect example of federal agency coming together with a nonprofit organization and working together to kind of move the needle on accessibility into the national forest down there.
Speaker 2:So I do think it's happening more.
Speaker 1:That's great to hear, yeah, and like you said you, hope, at some point you'll just work yourself out of a job and it becomes the norm, and it's not this thing that we're talking about. It's more about we're celebrating it as opposed to trying to expose people to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an ambitious goal, but I do. The more we give these trainings, the more we talk through it with people, the more I see people becoming more comfortable with the idea, and so much of it is rooted in the unknown. Historically, people with disabilities haven't been involved and included in our kind of general population general community. I mean, you saw it, I saw it growing up in the public school system. Right, there was the special ed department.
Speaker 2:It was over this, like those kids over there, right right more and more like real inclusion is happening at a younger age and moving through. I do think, and as we continue to run some of these programs I mean this state park I'll be so excited to see once we get through this year and more and more people have seen people with disabilities using those parks paddling in kayaks, going rock climbing, going hiking it starts to change our mindset about what people are capable of doing, and not just on big outdoor adventures but in everyday life.
Speaker 2:You know like you're walking down the street one day after coming on a waypoint program and seeing or even being in the climbing gym is this is an example I'll often use, even if someone's not directly involved in being a part of the waypoint program, volunteering or that kind of thing. Right, maybe they're just in the climbing gym climbing and they see someone wheel in in their power chair and they see them get in a harness and they see them go climb. Oh my goodness, I never thought that was possible. Well, that's pretty cool. Well then, when they're walking down the street and they see someone similar or maybe even that same person wheeling up the street in their power chair, they look at them differently right so there is a societal and cultural change that can happen just by giving entrance into these activities and spaces.
Speaker 1:Well said and.
Speaker 2:I think long term the needle will move. We will become more comfortable with the idea and the thought of what's the part that I play now and kind of looking for my neighbor that I know may have a disability and may not be participating in some of the same activities that I find joy from. I'm going to go invite him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, because he can do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I mean this really resonates with me because not too long ago my son and I were mountain biking at Canuga Ride, canuga and Catalyst was out there and there were a number of people that were out there on and I'm probably going to use the proper name of their bikes, but it was like a, it was a four-wheeler bike and they were hand crank or hand pedaled, and not all of them, they were all various types of disabilities, mobility disabilities, I guess, and it I mean it just blew me away when I'm huffing and puffing, when I got up to the top and I literally had to lay down and just let my heart rate come back down to normal and you start to see one person after the other just coming up and for me it just sat. That whole day was great because I was with my son number one but watching them was the huge part of the joy for me for that day. And then the third part was a mountain biking. So it was all about connections of people and it was about watching them sort of continuing to come up.
Speaker 1:And you know, I'll never forget this one bumper, or the one sticker on the back of a guy's bike. It says you know, embrace the suck, you know is kind of what it said, but they were going for it. And it made such an impression on me that here you are, you know, a couple of years later and still thinking about and talking about that kind of an experience. And so it's like what you say the more that you see this in the outdoors, the more that you see this becomes mainstream, it becomes less of special programming, it becomes this is just that they get. They get a chance to do this, just like I do. And again, I keep going back to the smiles on the faces on every single one of these pictures that I look at, and that's the same smile that we have when we do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, totally, yeah In in the training. One of the things we lead with is and this is something we try to impress on all of our team members, both volunteers and full-time is we're not working with disabilities, we're working with people.
Speaker 1:Love that.
Speaker 2:Right. So if we can get our minds to kind of cross that threshold of like, wait a minute, this is just. It's just a person approach life a little bit differently than me, but I just need to get to know them as an individual that's it and as a person, and they can do as much and and anything I can do yeah you know, with a little bit of help, uh, potentially, and uh, they want to do those things.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know so.
Speaker 1:One of your students that was part of Bravo Layla, was my wife's student way back when, when she was in like the first or second grade and her mother was very much that very same way of listen. I want her to do the things that normal people are doing, and so don't baby her. I want you guys to treat her just like you're going to treat me no-transcript, talking about their experiences. And it was, you know, it was just her heart and it was her mind and it was her joyfulness and her playfulness, that just it just made you forget about everything else. And she's just a human, just like we are, and that's where we need to get to that. At least that's what I hear you saying.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, layla is a high school girl.
Speaker 1:High school girl yeah, who just wants to do Wise beyond her years Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yes, she's amazing, she is. She's actually one of the Bravo participants that have come on our programs that we've been talking about. How can we help her progress in her skills? She really took to the indoor kayaking program and being in those small whitewater boats and we've had some conversations just internally recently about how could we push Layla to start moving towards getting on the French Broad and playing around with some whitewater kayaking. Anyway, that's a whole nother side conversation.
Speaker 1:Don't challenge her with a good time, that's right.
Speaker 2:Exactly In the disability advocacy world, mike. What you're talking about is the dignity of risk. People with disabilities and disability advocates say I want the right to fail. Don't pad and protect my whole life, like, give me the chance to try something that I might not succeed at, it's okay, just like you get a chance to participate in things that you might not succeed at. That's where the learning happens.
Speaker 1:That's where I grow, so know.
Speaker 2:So yeah, dignity of risk. We need to give everybody the dignity of risk.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so well said. Well, it is so hard for me to believe that we've literally been here for an hour, if you can believe that, and I know the last time that we were together we probably talked for the same amount of time and could have kept on going, and we could keep on going today, but I guess at some point we have to draw this to a close. So I really thank you for the work that you all are doing. So the things you're doing are great. Again, it's waypointadventureorg right.
Speaker 2:That's it. Yeah, and when you go there there'll be two buttons Massachusetts and North Carolina. Okay, If you want to know what's going on in Massachusetts or get involved there, you click the Massachusetts button. But if you want to get involved with us here in North Carolina, click the North Carolina button.
Speaker 1:All right, and you are happy to have people get involved financially with their time volunteering, creating those smiles, whatever it may be. You would definitely invite those sorts of people to come alongside you all and join you in your forces.
Speaker 2:Yes, Participate, volunteer and donate that's what you'll see when you go on the website. Those are kind of the three calls. To action is come join us on a program as a participant or a volunteer and if you want to see this work continue, make a big donation.
Speaker 1:You heard it here first Make a big donation. Yeah, we definitely want to see that continue. Well, the work that you're doing is noble work. It's just such good work and I love the fact that, even though you got out of it at one point, you're back into it and you really realize that this is what I was made to do, and you're living out of that right now. So you're living out of the overflow. So it's definitely evident Great heart, love your mission, love everything about what y'all are doing, and I just wish y'all the absolute most and best of luck.
Speaker 2:Thanks, mike, you got to come join us on a program too.
Speaker 1:I will do it. Thanks, buddy. It was an absolute pleasure to sit down with Adam. His insights into the incredible mission of making outdoor experiences accessible to individuals with disabilities were truly inspiring. From the latest in adaptive adventure equipment to the expansive efforts in Western North Carolina, we hope you've gained a deeper understanding of how Waypoint Adventure is revolutionizing inclusivity and outdoor activities is revolutionizing inclusivity and outdoor activities. The stories of collaboration with local schools, social service agencies and the exciting North Carolina State Parks Partnership showcase the impact of their customized adventures, fostering strong communities and making a real difference.
Speaker 1:If you're as moved by Waypoint Adventures' mission as we are, consider getting involved. Whether through participation, volunteering or donations, your support can help further their cause and bring the joy of outdoor adventures to everyone. Visit waypointadventureorg for more information. That's going to do it for this episode. I really hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please subscribe, rate and leave us a review. Your feedback helps us continue to bring you stories of how these mountains and the outdoors influence and shape our lives. Join me on Instagram and Facebook and drop me a line at mike at explorationlocalcom if you ever have a suggestion for a future episode or if you just want to say hello. As always, I encourage you to wander far but explore local. And until we meet again, let's champion a world where everyone can experience the transformative joy of outdoor adventures.
Speaker 2:Thank you.