Exploration Local
Exploration Local
Revitalizing the French Broad River: Green Infrastructure, Stormwater Strategies, and Community Action with Renee Fortner
Can green infrastructure save our rivers? Join us as we explore the French Broad River's transformation with Renee Fortner, Watershed Resources Manager at RiverLink. Discover RiverLink’s efforts in turning neglected riverfronts into community spaces and using innovative stormwater management strategies. Learn about projects like the Woodfin Greenway, Taylor's Wave, and Gateway Park in Asheville's River Arts District.
Despite threats from industrial pollution and stormwater runoff, the resurgence of freshwater mussels offers hope. We'll discuss sedimentation's impact on aquatic life, the Clean Water Act, and local policies vital for river health. Get practical stormwater management tips and learn about RiverLink's Water Rich program for rain gardens and rain barrels. Hear how community partnerships are essential for the French Broad River's preservation. Don't miss this inspiring conversation on collective action and environmental stewardship.
Mike Andress
Host, Exploration Local
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mike@explorationlocal.com
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Can we truly transform a once-polluted river into a thriving community asset? Join us as we uncover the remarkable journey of the French Broad River's revitalization with Rene Fortner, watershed Resources Manager at RiverLink. Rene shares RiverLink's inspiring history, from reclaiming degraded riverfront properties to creating green spaces that enrich the community. We'll learn how stormwater runoff has emerged as the primary threat to the river, overshadowing industrial pollution, and the innovative strategies RiverLink employs to tackle this issue head-on. We dive deep into the challenges posed by sediment and pollutants, revealing their harmful effects on the French Broad's diverse ecosystem, and we discover the groundbreaking green stormwater infrastructure projects that mimic nature to protect and rejuvenate the river. We also learned about exciting community projects like the Woodfin Greenway, blueway, taylor's Wave and the Gateway Park in Asheville's River Arch District. Renee's passion and dedication shine through, offering a wealth of insights and inspiration on how you and I can get involved in preserving and revitalizing this vital watershed. Tune in and become part of the movement to protect our precious waterways. I'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 1:You're listening to Exploration Local, a podcast designed to explore and celebrate the people and places that make the Blue Ridge and Southern Appalachian Mountains special and unique. My name is Mike Andrus, the host of Exploration Local. Join us on our journey to explore these mountains and discover how they fuel the spirit of adventure. We encourage you to wander far, but explore local, let's go. My guest today is Renee Fortner. But explore local, let's go. My guest today is Renee Fortner. She is the Watershed Resources Manager at the local environmental nonprofit Riverlink. She is an avid river paddler, home gardener and naturalist and is continually reminded how the environment around us and our daily lives are affected by access to clean and abundant water. Renee, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Thanks, mike, I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 1:One of the things I love to do right here at the very outset is give sort of a broad picture of River Link for people who don't know what is River Link and what is the really, really important work that you all do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, river Link, as you mentioned, a local environmental non-profit.
Speaker 3:Our office is in Asheville, down in the River Arts District, but we work across the eight-county region that is the French Broad River watershed in western North Carolina and we've been around for a while. We were founded in the early 1980s with this vision to revitalize the French Broad Riverfront in Asheville. The river had a long industrial past and it had been heavily polluted and neglected. The local community was disconnected from the river and so Riverlink set out on this trajectory to clean the river up, engaged the community members in that and eventually ended up purchasing old, derelict properties along the riverfront in Asheville and converting them, cleaning them up and converting them from industry junkyards, old landfills, into riverfront parks where everybody could enjoy the river. You know, a big driving factor behind that was this idea that you know. If we can foster that connection to the river and help people interact with it and experience it, then that's going to lead to this sense of ownership and love for the river and then that's going to lead to better stewardship of the river.
Speaker 3:And I think we, the community as a whole, and Riverlink has been very successful in that. If you're in Asheville, you know you can go down Amboy Road and from Carrier Park French Broad River Park, the new Karen Craig Nolan Park that Riverlink opened this past year is right there along the river, all the way down to Gene Webb Park in the River Arts District. You know those were all old derelict properties that are now very popular for recreation for, you know, visitors and residents alike.
Speaker 1:I did not know that so I didn't know the areas right along Riverside Drive that you all had something to do with that as well. I know the Karen Craig Nolan Park.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:I know. So I was just there yesterday. Oh, yay, yeah, yeah, I just rode all up and down it and love seeing all the River Link signs everywhere too, and so, yeah, we sort of did that loop and got a chance to see the new park there, all the improvements right across from Wrong Way Campground and all the beautiful things that you all did there too.
Speaker 3:That's right, and maybe you saw the sign and you read about how it used to be a junkyard. I did, I did yes.
Speaker 3:And it took about 15 years to clean the soil up there because it had been contaminated from the car crushing operation. Oh, it was a long process of letting nature basically do its thing. Basically do its thing. Soil, microbes and native plants on that site literally broke down, the oil and gas molecules that were in that soil, contaminating the site, you know. And then now it's, you know, safer recreation, and we named it in honor of our founding executive director, karen Craig Nolan.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it also serves to connect. It used to be the missing link between Carrier Park and French Broad River Park because we had to keep it fenced off because it was contaminated and so part of the building the park at least the first phase of it was to connect that greenway, so now you don't have to get out onto that narrow sidewalk along. Amboy Road. You can just cruise on through the greenway. That now you don't have to get out onto that narrow sidewalk along Amboy Road. You can just cruise on through the greenway.
Speaker 1:That's cool. That's exactly what we did. We were e-biking. It was such a good time. Yeah. And then did you have anything to do with sort of that river left side too, when you leave French Broad Park, going from there down to New Belgium, or was that anything with y'all? Or y'all are on River Wright, on the River Arch District.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mostly River Wright. That was primarily the city of Asheville.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:And then New Belgium, of course, as a partner and a landowner along that segment of the Greenway.
Speaker 1:Cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Very cool. Well, one of the things that you focus on in your role with River Link as the watershed resources manager is stormwater runoff. That's a really big thing. You and I were talking a couple of weeks ago about just driving by the French Broad certain sections of it, depending on, you know, especially after heavy rainfall it sort of turns this brown, murky color, turbidity, I guess, increases, so you're not able to really kind of see and it doesn't seem clear. And so the first my comment was well, gosh, I don't know, is it dirty, does it seem dirty? And and you really sort of started to open up my eyes to really what's going on. And then since then I've just tried to learn as much as I can and that's what we're going to unpack today. But I know that's your passion area and so, at high level, I love for us to just kind of talk about stormwater runoff and how it is the number one threat to the health of the French Broad River.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely yeah. I mean, the river is much cleaner than it used to be. But protecting and restoring the river and all the tributary streams that flow into her? And restoring the river and all the tributary streams that flow into her. You know it continues today and it will continue. And yeah, as you mentioned, stormwater runoff is. You know, it used to be industrial pollution. That was the biggest threat to the river, and now it's stormwater runoff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's basically rainwater that, rather than soak into the ground like it would in a natural area, it flows across hard surfaces like rooftops, parking lots, driveways, and those hard surfaces don't allow the rainwater to soak into the ground. Instead, it runs across the landscape. This, but the storm drains that you see along our streets and in parking lots, those are piped directly into the nearest stream or the French Broad River, and that water doesn't go to the wastewater treatment plant in Woodfin where it gets filtered out. That water goes directly into the stream, untreated, and so you can just picture that water moving across a parking lot and the things that it picks up and then delivers into our streams and into the French Broad River.
Speaker 3:So it's the runoff and what's in it that's impacting the river, but then it's just the sheer amount of water that these hard surfaces shed Many millions, even billions of gallons of runoff annually. We ran a calculation recently. We looked at all of the rooftop surface area just in Buncombe County using GIS and then we took that number and then we took the average rainfall in a given year. And then we took the average rainfall in a given year roughly 42 inches of rain in Asheville and then we calculated the gallons of water that's being shed by rooftops and it was 8 billion gallons of water a year. That's insane.
Speaker 3:And then we looked at, okay, well, how many Olympic swimming pools would that amount of water fill up? And it was something like 450 Olympic swimming pools and it would stretch across the entire state of North Carolina. And so that's not to say that every rooftop is piping its runoff into a creek, but many of them do, and so that just kind of highlights how much water that is and it's being delivered to our streams basically all at once, and so it creates this real flashy stream hydrograph we call it. Where you know, during a rain in our urban streams, you'll see the water levels rise really rapidly because of that incoming runoff runoff, and then, as soon as the rain stops, the water recedes really quickly. So it's very flashy and that causes all sorts of issues. You know definitely makes stream bank erosion worse, and so, yeah, those in a nutshell, that's stormwater runoff and why it negatively impacts the French Broad River.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I would imagine there are certain areas that are probably a little bit more susceptible to the urban runoff. Obviously, you've got the headwater starting, you know, way up near Rosman and then it sort of creeps its way down and then, obviously you know, out into Tennessee or up into Tennessee. Are there certain areas that are worse than others? Are there certain just I don't know if it may be worse is the right way or just different contaminants that are being introduced into the watershed at certain places?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. You know, I've paddled the French Broad Paddle Trail from the headwaters in Rosman to Asheville over a spring break trip a few years ago with my family and you could visibly see the difference in the clarity of the river as you moved downstream. And there was a noticeable difference in water quality once you got to Brevard, which was the first really big urbanized area on that stretch of the river. Yeah, the clarity went way down.
Speaker 3:And so you can visibly see it. And then we know from water quality testing that's been done that water quality degrades when you get close to these urban centers where there are a lot of hard or impervious surfaces that generate more storm water runoff. It's not to say that runoff doesn't occur in rural areas, you know there's certainly their own challenges I mean to that type of area in terms of, you know, agricultural lands can be a source of runoff too if they're not managed well. But yeah, what happens on the land affects what's happening in the water.
Speaker 1:All right. So we understand what the problem is. We understand that rain runoff is a real thing. We understand that the impact that these heavy rains make, sometimes especially in the urban areas, but, as you said, even in some of the other areas of farmlands they have their own set of unique challenges as well. Let's talk a little bit about just this area and its increase in population, because in the 11 years I've lived here it's increased significantly. Downtown, here, you know all over. But how is the increase in the population and the economic development in Western North Carolina affecting this rain runoff, affecting all that we're talking about?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, with development comes more hard or impervious surfaces that don't allow the rainwater to soak into the ground. We need economic development. We need more housing. You know we have a shortage in housing stock here and that's driving up the cost of housing in housing stock here and that's driving up the cost of housing, so which in this region we're actually a climate refuge for folks that are moving from other parts of the country, like California and South Florida. But you know we experience our own impacts from climate change, extreme weather events being one of them, and you know, significantly heavier, more intense rain events, and so that's also going to exacerbate the runoff issue.
Speaker 1:You know, one thing I'm realizing that we really haven't talked about is what are those negative impacts?
Speaker 1:Like we talked about the water changing and we talked about some of the contaminants and things that get in the river, but it really does affect it. And yesterday when I was riding, I met a gentleman who gosh, I think he said he's lived here for like 30 years and we rode basically at the end of that greenway downtown and we were right there at Hominy Creek and he was talking about this sand and dredge area that it used to be. And then when I looked at it last night on Google Earth, I was like, yeah, this is where they were having to dredge and a lot of the silt and everything that gets in. But this really does affect the marine life, it affects the biodiversity, it affects a lot of things, and that's the part that I think we need to connect to is really kind of what's happening, because we see the water changing colors or the river changing colors, we see all the rain, we see it running down our streets and in gutters and so forth, but what's really happening in the river?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you know, the French Broad River watershed is one of the most biodiverse freshwater systems in North America. So when you think about aquatic biodiversity, you usually think about tropical life in oceans right, you know, reefs and all the fish that live in and among coral reefs, but in terms of freshwater, so, like river systems, the French Broad River watershed is part of the Tennessee River Basin and it just happens to have really high rates of biodiversity in terms of freshwater fish, freshwater mussels, among other animals, and so, yeah, it's a really special place. But the biodiversity in the French Broad River has suffered over the years, first from the industrial pollution that was being piped into the river and now from the stormwater runoff. And stormwater affects life in the river in a number of ways Sediment we talk about how muddy the river looks after a rain and that's because of the sediment that is getting into the river.
Speaker 3:And you know we think of sediment. It's natural, it's a naturally occurring thing and rivers naturally have sediment in them. But there is a point at which there's too much sediment and it negatively impacts what's living in the river. And so that sediment is coming from the stormwater runoff and it's originating from construction sites where you have exposed soil, construction sites. Where you have, you know, exposed soil, it's coming from stream bank erosion and that's all made worse by stormwater runoff. And then stormwater runoff is the carrier of the sediment that brings it to the river.
Speaker 3:But sediment destroys aquatic habitat. It covers the rocks in the bottom of the river and fish rely on those rocks for laying their eggs. So it disrupts the fish ability to breed in the river. It clogs their gills, it can affect their immune system and make them more susceptible to parasites and disease, to parasites and disease. Freshwater mussels are filter feeders and so they siphon water and pull out small particles that they feed on from that water. And when the water's laden with sediment they're unable to feed. And that's a big reason why our freshwater mussel populations are suffering in the French Broad River. And then sediment also. It poses a human health concern in that sediment can bind to other pollutants like heavy metals, fecal coliform bacteria, and then it can transport those pollutants throughout the watershed can transport those pollutants throughout the watershed.
Speaker 1:Is there any data or anything that kind of tracks the improvement or is it getting worse in terms of the marine life and the biodiversity? Is that something that you all, I mean? I know, like there's the French Broad River Keepers, for example, and they're constantly measuring and so that's kind of seeing what the result is. But is there any data that just kind of says is it cleaning up, is it getting better? Is it getting better, is it getting worse? Where are we today?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a good question. I'm not aware of any long-term data sets out there tracking the water quality in the French Broad River. There is data on the sediment, the turbidity of the river. There's, as you mentioned, the River Keepers Tracking fecal coliform bacteria.
Speaker 3:There's another organization in Black Mountain called the Environmental Quality Institute that does water quality sampling really much throughout western North Carolina on different tributary streams of the French Broad River, and it can vary from year to year based on how much rainfall we've had. So if we're in a relatively dry year, maybe even a drought period, water quality is going to be pretty darn good because the river's not receiving that stormwater runoff and so I think it can be a difficult thing to track long term. But we do have some promising sort of data coming from Fish and Wildlife Service. So they track endangered species and they go out and they do freshwater mussel surveys, fish surveys, looking and tracking populations of endangered fish and mussels, and they have seen some of the freshwater mussels in particular kind of making a comeback in the French Broad River, and so that's really encouraging, I think.
Speaker 3:But I think, as you mentioned earlier, as development continues to increase, that we can't kind of let our guard down and be like, okay, it's all good Things are coming back, because there's certainly the potential to backslide and to lose some of the progress that we've made.
Speaker 1:What are some other things that are kind of being done to help stop it, mitigate it, if it's awareness to contractors or just the work that y'all are doing?
Speaker 3:So because stormwater runoff is a major source of pollution for our waterways, it is regulated by the federal government through the Clean Water Act. So there are regulations around development and a certain size development might trigger the requirement to manage the stormwater and keep more of it on site. Stormwater and keep more of it on site. And so you know we have local ordinances. Buncombe County, henderson County, city of Asheville, all have their own unique development ordinance that requires certain size developments to manage their stormwater runoff. But for the most part single family homes don't trigger any requirement to treat your stormwater runoff, it's just voluntary.
Speaker 3:And so there's local government plays a role in that and you know, I think from Riverlink's perspective, we would certainly love for those requirements to apply to sort of a broader scope of businesses and, you know, residences. But there are some incentives out there cost share programs that can help encourage people to voluntarily, businesses to voluntarily do more to manage their stormwater runoff. There's grant funding that's available, that nonprofit organizations like Riverlink have access to, grant funds that are from state and federal government that can help promote and kind of offset the cost of managing stormwater runoff on commercial sites. We actually have a really exciting project that's about to go under construction. It's a collaboration with Riverlink and AB Tech Community College in Asheville. Oh cool.
Speaker 3:And we got funding through the EPA's 319 grant program to help AB Tech replace this large parking lot that they don't use and it generates a lot of stormwater runoff that then gets piped directly into the small stream on their campus, which then feeds into the French Broad River, and so we're going to work with them to replace this parking lot with a constructed stormwater wetland and it's going to be a really beautiful amenity for the campus. It's going to have trails that go around it and it's going to be planted with native plants and trees and there's going to be educational signage and it's also going to serve as an outdoor classroom for.
Speaker 1:AB Tech students.
Speaker 3:They're going to be collecting long-term data on the impact of that wetland and the benefits that it's going to provide to Haith Branch and the French Broad River.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's great. Let's stay with that stream of thought, because now we're talking about solutions and we're talking about things that are reducing or mitigating, if you will, the runoff. What are some of the other things that you've done? What are some of the other projects that you've been directly involved with or that you all are really sort of pushing to really fight this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't think I've used this term yet, but I want to introduce this term green stormwater infrastructure.
Speaker 1:Oh, I like it.
Speaker 3:And that is really what we're preaching, that we need more of. So historically we've managed our stormwater runoff with what we call gray infrastructure, so that series of gutters and downspouts and storm drains and outfalls. And the goal of the gray infrastructure, the way it is designed to function, it just moves water off-site as quickly as possible. And the alternative to that is something that we call green stormwater infrastructure. And these, the goal of green stormwater infrastructure, is to kind of mimic nature before development occurred and you keep the runoff on site whenever possible and you give it an opportunity to soak into the ground, where soil microbes and the plant roots can filter pollutants out of the water. They take up some of that water and then what doesn't get soaked up by the plants is goes into the groundwater table and actually recharges our groundwater. And so green stormwater infrastructure is really the path forward. And there are quite a few really great examples of green infrastructure, you know, in our community the town of Hendersonville comes to mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay. So they actually have done some green infrastructure there. They have large cisterns that harvest the roof runoff from maybe a facilities management building where they have mowers and trucks stored there, and so they're harvesting the roof runoff, keeping it on site and then they're using that to actually wash their equipment on that site. There's also some rain gardens there that capture runoff from a parking lot and soak it into the ground and keeping it out of the creek that flows through the park. So that's a really great example and they actually have what they call a stormwater walk with some educational signage and you can walk through the park and you can read about the different green infrastructure features there. Another one Town of Black Mountain we just partnered with them last year. They have Lake Tomahawk Park really beautiful lake. The backdrop is, you know, the mountains out there the.
Speaker 3:Black Mountains. It's really lovely Walk-in trails. A lot of ducks hang out in the lake. They had a parking lot that was just discharging stormwater runoff directly into the lake, and they have sedimentation issues in the lake. They have to dredge it periodically, and so we worked with them to construct what's called a bioswell, and it's this feature between the parking lot and the lake, and now the runoff goes into this depressed area that's planted with native plants and it gets filtered there and it's keeping it out of Lake Tomahawk, and so it's become a beautiful amenity for the park, but then it's also helping protect the lake. That's so cool the lake.
Speaker 3:That's so cool. And then another project that comes to mind that's very dear to my heart is the Southside Community Stormwater Project and this was a Riverlink partnership with the Asheville Housing Authority and we addressed runoff in this public housing community in the Southside neighborhood of Asheville. Residents were being negatively impacted by this runoff that was getting onto a residential parking lot and it was so just constant and frequent that the parking lot was covered in this really slippery algae and then in the wintertime the water would freeze.
Speaker 3:And so it made slippery, unsafe conditions for people trying to get to their cars, and so we designed and installed a whole series of green infrastructure features that now collects the roof runoff and the parking lot runoff and soaks it into the ground.
Speaker 3:So there's a series of rain gardens, there's this feature excuse me, that looks like a natural stream bed that goes down slope. That slows the stormwater down, gives it a chance to soak into the ground, and then there's a stormwater wetland with a trail around it. And so you know, in addition to the water quality benefits of green infrastructure, there's many co-benefits to it as well. They can be amenities for a community or for a residential property. They're, you know, they can be very attractive landscape features, but they can also help provide recreation opportunities. So you know, as I've mentioned, walking trails a couple of times, associated with these projects, and they can help provide, especially in our urban areas. You know you're removing hard surfaces and you're replacing them with natural vegetation, and that can help with the urban heat island effect, and so you know you're building climate resiliency at the same time as you know you're protecting water quality.
Speaker 3:So, if you can't tell, I'm a big fan of green infrastructure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, you know it's interesting because it's been several years. But a good friend of mine was the facilities director at the University of Tennessee, Memphis, and this is years ago. But even back then he was a very big proponent of these types of catching. You know catch areas Back then I don't know if he had a name for it, but it was like this catch basin and I remember looking at him going the first time and thinking well, it looks so beautifully landscaped. And then all of a sudden it got flooded and I'm like, is this going to kill it? And you're like, no, mike, this is by design and this is exactly why we do this. And it's so cool to sort of have this come full circle almost 20 plus years later and to see the work that you all are doing and see some of the examples and hear some of the examples that you're talking about right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that's so good. I think some people refer to it as low impact development and I think it can be under that umbrella of low impact development and I think the term green stormwater infrastructure is kind of new over the past few years, but it's been around for a while, okay For sure.
Speaker 1:So let's turn our focus to homeowners on the residential side and maybe some of the things that they can do, because those were like big, really important projects affecting a community. But what about the individual homeowners? Because there are some things that we can do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, riverlink has a program called Water Rich and you can access it through our website, but it is focused just on residential stormwater management. And I would say you know, if you're a property owner, you start by observing your site, walking around during a rain event, look at where the water's going, where do your downspouts drain to, and look for opportunities. If that water is leaving your site, look for opportunities to keep it on site where it can soak into the ground, and the good news is that there are a lot of opportunities and lots of options for how you could do that. So we promote in our Water Rich Guide things like rain gardens.
Speaker 3:We promote in our Water Rich Guide things like rain gardens. So these are just small bowl-shaped landscaped areas that typically you're routing a roof downspout into it. And because it's like bowl-shaped, it's filled with native plants that are beautiful. And because it's bowl-shaped, it's designed to hold water for a short period of time and give it a chance to soak into the ground. And there are native plants that are adapted to having their roots wet for a period of time and then dry for a period of time. And in our Water Rich Guide there's a whole list of trees, shrubs, perennials that will thrive in that environment. Other things that you could do say, you're a gardener or you have a lot of potted plants that need watering. Maybe you want to install a rain barrel and route a downspout into a rain barrel and use that rainwater to water your plants. Very cool.
Speaker 3:If you have municipal water, then you're going to be saving on your water. You're Very cool about discharges onto my driveway and then that's going into the street and that's going to go into the storm drain down there. Maybe I just put an extender on the downspout and I reroute it to the lawn. Maybe you have a lawn area where you could let that water soak into the ground instead, or an existing landscape bed, and so we call that disconnecting your downspout.
Speaker 1:And that's really the most basic, inexpensive thing that you could do as a homeowner, just trying to make sure that it's not running off on hard surfaces where it can run away. We want it to stay and use the benefit of it.
Speaker 3:That's right, and sometimes our downspouts are buried below ground and if there's a stream in your backyard and you go back there and look, you might see that the contractor piped your downspout into the stream and that's perfectly legal, but certainly not desirable, because you're contributing to, you know, that large volume of water that's getting into our streams during rain events, and so that's an opportunity there to bring the water back closer and keep it out of the stream.
Speaker 3:And you certainly you know there's certain guidelines you want to be mindful of. You don't want to create a drainage issue in your basement or your crawl space, and so you can look at our water rich guide and you can see some things that you want to keep in mind, like you want to make sure your downspout is discharging you know, at least five feet away from the foundation of your home and you want to make sure that the area drains within a certain period of time, and but there's some simple steps you can go through to make sure that your site's going to be appropriate for these types of measures going to be appropriate for these types of measures.
Speaker 1:So there's probably some partnerships that are out there that they're not necessarily direct work that y'all are doing, but then you have some partnerships that are out there too.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I mean, RiverLink is not the only organization working to protect the health of the river and protect water quality in the French Broad River watershed.
Speaker 3:There's Mountain True and the Riverkeeper Program Conserving Carolina and Hendersonville. They're doing a lot of work along the French Broad River as it flows through Transylvania and Henderson County. And then you have your local governments, who, many of them, have stormwater programs. They own and manage the gray infrastructure that is designed to keep our streets from flooding, and so they have, you know, permits to discharge stormwater into local streams, the impacts of their stormwater runoff on our local waterways. Part of having a stormwater discharge permit is providing, you know, public education, raising awareness about the impacts of this consortium of local government, business, nonprofits that all have a stake or work in some capacity on the French Broad River.
Speaker 1:So what you're really describing is this larger network and partnership of these organizations and groups. As you say, you're not the only one that's out there looking after it, it's this whole entire French Broad partnership.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:So we talked about some of the nonprofits and some of the other groups that are part of it. But how do we get local governments and policymakers to really kind of get behind this in any way if it's just creating policy or support or awareness or whatever it may be?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. That's a great question. It's going to take all of us working together to tackle this issue. So local governments develop the local stormwater ordinance for their community, and that stormwater ordinance sort of dictates how stormwater is managed when a development occurs, for example. So if the development is increasing the area of hard or impervious surface, then that might trigger a requirement for them to install some green infrastructure to reduce the amount of runoff that they're going to generate. And so, you know, we would certainly love to see, as I mentioned earlier, that ordinance to be more restrictive and more expansive in terms of who is required to treat their stormwater runoff.
Speaker 3:But in the state of North Carolina, you know, we have kind of a unique legal structure in that the state legislature has the ability to limit local government's ability to create a more strict ordinance, and so, as it stands currently, local governments cannot make their stormwater ordinance any more restrictive than what the state of North Carolina has said, and so, in order for that to change, we would have to, you know, elect different officials to the state legislature, people who are, you know, want to prioritize water quality, and stormwater runoff is a huge component of that.
Speaker 3:And so there's some politics there, as there are with most things to provide incentives. So if you can't legislate it, then perhaps you can incentivize it. I'm a big proponent of incentives, and so these would be things like cost share programs. The city of Raleigh has something called rainwater rewards and I think that could serve as a good model for some of our local governments, where the local government takes a certain amount of maybe it's their stormwater fee money and they provide a cost share where they pay, you know, perhaps 50 percent of the cost of a rain garden installation for a resident or rain barrels. Incentives for developers could be perhaps a reduced stormwater fee, maybe some a reduction in the permit fees. You know there's a variety of ways that other local governments have found to incentivize more green stormwater infrastructure in their communities.
Speaker 1:So you all are obviously doing great work and we've talked about the partnerships that are doing great work as well but I have to believe there's got to be some inspiring stories out there from community members where they really are taking action to help protect our waterways, and I'm wondering, if that's true, if you might be able to share a few of those stories with us.
Speaker 3:Sure, I would encourage listeners to also check out our website and this public service campaign that we have going on right now. It's called Reduce Rain Runoff. We have, on that campaign web page, we have a series that we're calling the Stormwater Diaries, and these are stories inspirational stories of people, business owners and residents in the watershed that have taken action to manage their runoff, and so one of those stories, sunny Point Cafe. It's a small business in West Asheville. They were having some flooding issues on their parking lot and it was coming from the roof of the restaurant, and so they found a creative solution to addressing the flooding, but also found an opportunity to harvest their roof runoff, and so they've installed some rainwater cisterns and these are tall metal tanks that are now capturing the roof runoff which was flowing onto their parking lot and causing problems, and they're using that rainwater to water their kitchen garden. They have a beautiful kitchen garden behind the restaurant where they use the plants from that. They cook them in the kitchen, and so I think that's a really inspirational story for a small business and also highlights how you know the co-benefits of these practices addressing flooding issues, protecting water quality, saving on their water bill by using the free rainwater to water their kitchen garden.
Speaker 3:And then we have several highlights of residents that we know that have done proactive things on their property. One person in particular I can think of this gentleman named Ben Harper and he lives near downtown Asheville and he lives kind of on a slope but near the bottom of the slope. So he was getting a lot of runoff from neighboring properties and from the street and he has addressed the runoff issues coming off site. But then he's also is now collecting all of his roof runoff and keeping it on his own property because he's not at the very bottom of the hill. He has some neighbors below him and his runoff was also impacting them, and so he's installed some rain barrels. He's built what's called bioswells on his property. These are kind of like rain gardens but they're long and narrow and almost like terraces, so a series of these swales and berms, because his property sloped and he's now routing some of his roof runoff into those. They're planted with edible plants. So strawberries?
Speaker 1:Oh, no way.
Speaker 3:Mint and blueberries that are planted in and around the bioswells, so you can manage your runoff and enjoy the fruits of your labor in the process.
Speaker 1:Pun intended. Yes, right, oh, those are great stories. And then I have to believe that there are other big projects that y'all are working on as well, and I love to kind of, maybe kind of talk a little bit about that, because you have the current projects that you've, or the projects that you've done, the current projects, and then on your website you also have some really, really cool stuff.
Speaker 3:That's that's coming down the pike too, and I wonder if you can kind of give us a little preview there too yes, you know, in addition to this ongoing sort of water quality, watershed health work that we do at River Link, we still continue building parks, riverfront parks, we're still continuing to introduce people, connect them to the river. And so a couple exciting projects that were involved in. Just last week we were part of the groundbreaking ceremony on the Woodfin Green Way Blue Way project. So this is a really ambitious initiative that the small town of Woodfin has taken on. A few years ago their residents voted to pass a bond referendum that would fund in large part this project that will create five miles of new greenway along the French Broad River, connecting Woodfin Residence to the riverfront, expanding Riverside Park and building a new park called Silver Line Park, which opened last year. But on Friday we had the groundbreaking ceremony on what's going to be the expanded Riverside Park and an in-river whitewater wave feature that is going to be constructed.
Speaker 3:It's going to be called Taylor's Wave and that's in honor of this community member who's really been the driving force behind the project, mr Mark Hunt, his son, taylor. The wave is being named in his honor and it's going to be a world-class feature that's going to attract people from all over and local boaters are going to enjoy it, but it's going to be a fun play wave. Yeah, so that's going construction starting on the wave this summer and should be complete by early 2025. And, for those who are interested in surfing the wave, it's designed such that you know tubers and other boaters can easily bypass it. But it's going to be an incredible amenity, economic driver for the town of Woodfin and it's going to be a really great feature for local boaters.
Speaker 3:Incredible, you don't have to drive 30 minutes to find, you know, a whitewater feature like this. There's going to be one right in town. I love that not getting all of the funding partners on this project. You know, certainly private donations. And, yeah, Riverside Park and the Greenway is being designed by Equinox Environmental. Baker Grading is the contractor that's going to build the wave, and there are other partners that I'm not remembering, but Equinox Environmental. They're a local Asheville firm and they have been involved in a lot of public park projects. That's cool.
Speaker 3:Very talented and prolific landscape architecture firm that has a real focus on environmental stewardship.
Speaker 1:Love that.
Speaker 3:They designed New Belgium's campus. I don't know if you've been to New Belgium Brewery.
Speaker 1:Just drove by it last night.
Speaker 3:Right on the French Broad.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But knowing what you know now, the next time you go there to have a beer, I want you to keep an eye out for all of the green infrastructure on their campus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker 3:A lot. They went above and beyond what was required of them by the stormwater ordinance and they capture and treat all of the runoff there.
Speaker 1:That's amazing From their campus. Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but then also River Link just got funding to build another riverfront park. That's down in the River Arts District but it's in an area that currently doesn't have any public green space. So there's Pearson Bridge on Riverside Drive that connects the Richmond Hill community to Riverside Drive and there's a small parcel there beside the bridge that Riverlink owns. It was donated several years ago by the Stanback family which owns Ohm Sanctuary on the other side of the river. It's going to become Gateway Park and it's going to be the first public green space on that section of Riverside Drive. And in the near future the city of Asheville's Wilma Dykeman Greenway will be coming through there. The I-26 connector project is going to be bringing bike lanes to that section of Riverside Drive.
Speaker 3:Wow, the passive recreation on the river. It's actually fun fact. It's the historical location of Riverside Park, which was Asheville's first Riverside Park, was destroyed during the 1916 flood and it was never rebuilt. Wow, a rebirth of that original park. And we're going to have a pavilion at the park that is designed based off of the carousel that was there at the original Riverside Park. So we're going to pay homage to the Riverside Park of the past.
Speaker 1:That is so cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so a lot of really exciting things happening along the river and throughout the watershed.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. I just love I mean I really do not just because you're here, but I just love hearing of organizations and their stories and how everybody is sort of looking to improve, protect, preserve, you know, pay homage to the history, all of that. Yeah, that's. And that whole area down there, gosh, you know I drive through it a lot, but yesterday I just had a chance to ride through it. I mean I live down in Hendersonville but after work we just got on the e-bikes and just headed down to that whole area. Love seeing River Link's name everywhere number one, number two, just that whole area of how it's just so welcoming and I mean it feels safe and we know that all the things that are going on are also not only that we can enjoy but it's also protecting the river at the same time, which is so cool.
Speaker 3:That's right. Yeah, I mean, those riverfront parks are green infrastructure.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:At its finest.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so great. Well, so looking ahead, then, because we're talking about the problem, we've talked about some solutions and some things that y'all are doing, but what do you see as future challenges?
Speaker 3:Are there any that y'all foresee in kind of managing the storm runoff and things that we can do now to help prepare for that and head those things off?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, I think the challenges are directly related to, you know, increased development, which means increased hard, impervious surfaces, and that's that could potentially lead to more runoff if we aren't, you know, building smarter and incorporating more of this green stormwater infrastructure to keep the runoff on site. But then it's also related to climate change and extreme weather events. Green stormwater infrastructure can help build climate resilience. It can help manage the increased runoff that we could potentially have from these extreme rain events, but it can also help recharge our groundwater and make us more resilient during times of drought. So this region is not only expected to have bigger extreme rain events, but it's also expected to have more frequent periods of drought so kind of both extremes. And we're going to have to face those issues head on and try to be proactive and build climate resilience into our communities, and green infrastructure is a part of that climate resilience into our communities, and green infrastructure is a part of that.
Speaker 1:I love that, so that's a major way that even listeners can get involved and support the work that y'all are doing. What are some other ways that listeners can really get involved, like if this is the first time they're hearing it? I know for a lot of our listeners this is going to resonate with them for sure. But there also may be some people that this is starting to connect some dots for them, and I'm in that category too. I mean, there's some things that I'm connecting the dots on. How can people best be informed to be engaged?
Speaker 3:Okay, I can think of some fun ways. Cool, that's good, and then I can think of some more practical ways. I just recently got out on the WNC snorkel trail. I don't know if you've heard about this.
Speaker 1:I'm starting to see it and I'm seeing it on social media biodiversity.
Speaker 3:That is out of sight, out of mind. You know, most of the time you're on top of the water in a boat, or you're running alongside it on the greenway, or you're driving over a bridge and the river's underneath you and you just have no idea of what's going on in the water. And so the WNC snorkel trail has identified. I don't know how many locations there are at this point, but they're kind of spread throughout western North Carolina and you can go to their website and you can see where the different snorkel spots are. All you need is a snorkel mask, you know, and a snorkel tube, and you go out to these locations.
Speaker 3:There's a kiosk at each one that talks about here's how you do it safely, and here are some of the species that you're likely to see at this site. And then you just get in the water, and the water, you know if you can wade in it, then you can snorkel in it and you just float downstream, and there are times where the waters are kind of low and you might get up and you walk a little bit, but then you float down, and so, anyway, I've been to two sites locally at this point, but I'm hooked and I'm going to go to all of them. So I've been to the Swannanoa River site at Veterans Park in Black Mountain and then I've been to Mills River Park.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 3:So it's a good chance to see what's happening in the stream and you can also kind of see firsthand the differences in the health of the ecosystem. I noticed a big difference between the Mills River site and the town of Black Mountain site because the Swannanoa site's just downstream of the town, so it gets a lot more runoff.
Speaker 3:There was a lot more sediment in the bottom of the stream. We didn't see as many fish, but we still saw some really cool stuff Okay, so that's a fun way to connect with the river and kind of see firsthand the amazing biodiversity. I want to encourage listeners to go to River Link's website and see our reduced rain runoff our blogs. We really break it down into, I think, easy to understand terms and examples of the impact of runoff on our waterways and then provide resources for people to take action. No-transcript and there are lots of different ways people can plug in and make a difference and feel good about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so good. The work that you're doing is important work, it's noble work and I'm glad that there is a group of other partnerships that are around you so you feel like you're not having to have the whole lift, the whole heavy lift, because it is a heavy lift. But I really am a firm believer that when you become aware, you become connected. When you come connected, you become an advocate, and I really kind of I believe in that and I've seen that on trails, I've seen that in communities, I've seen that now on the in this important work that you're doing to protect the watersheds. And I think it's just that If I had any hope that would come out of this, from my perspective, it was that awareness would increase and it would be followed by engagement. What would you want to come out of an episode like this? What would you want listeners to do?
Speaker 3:Do something, even if it's something small. Be hopeful and do something, even if it's something small. That's related to what we've talked about today and I think we can collectively have a ripple effect pun intended on the health of the watershed and the health of our communities, because it's all interconnected.
Speaker 1:It is, isn't it? Yeah, it's so interconnected and that's probably the other thing. For me that's a really big takeaway is just it's not siloed. It's not just this is me, this is my property, or this is me, this is where I recreate. It's all so interdependent upon another.
Speaker 1:Well, this is really good. I feel like we could talk about this for hours and I know that we just scratched the surface of this. I do know that, but you have a phenomenal website and people can go to that website. Yes, you're welcome. I have enjoyed it. It's easy to follow the way that y'all have written some of the case studies. They're easy to follow, the blog is easy to follow and there's a plethora of information that, if somebody wants to choose the level of how I can get involved, it's there.
Speaker 3:Absolutely yeah, and I didn't even go into the other Riverlink programs that we have. You know we're an accredited land trust so we can help conserve properties that in turn help protect water quality. And then we have a really robust environmental youth education program where we go to schools and after school programs throughout the watershed and talk about these topics in a fun and informative way, and it's STEM-based education that help meets the North Carolina core requirements for science, and so teachers love to have us come in to their schools and engage the kids in these topics. So, yeah, a lot to talk about. Like you said, we could go.
Speaker 1:We could probably go on for hours, but Well, hopefully, what this did is at least give a high level view of the really important work that you're doing number one, number two, your passion, which is driving a lot of the work, and I know that there's a team of y'all that do this. But it's nice to put a face with a name, with somebody who is kind of part of Riverlink and part of doing the really important work there, but then it's just the awareness piece. I think that is so important. You're on Instagram, facebook we can check you out on your website, the projects that you've talked about with the Taylor's Wave and some of these other ones, in particular, the project that you talked about in Hendersonville. I'm feeling like that's probably going to be on my way back from dinner tonight.
Speaker 3:Yeah do the stormwater stroll?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, the stormwater stroll, I mean it's so cool. But, yeah, I really want to thank you for your work. I'm really so oftentimes encouraged by people that are passionate about what they do, passionate about helping people, passionate about helping our environment, passionate about protecting these assets that we have here, which are so wonderful. Yeah, and the important work that y'all are doing is just keeping that going. So, thank you all. Thank you Riverlink, thank you Renee, for the work that you're doing, and I just appreciate you coming down and spending some time and opening up and just sharing with me a little bit of your heart and your mind and your will here.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, thanks for having me and hope to see you on the river sometime, or the Greenway.
Speaker 1:Oh, the Greenway. That's right. Yeah, thanks. So much, renee, thank you. Thank you for joining us on this journey through the revitalization of the French Broad River. From understanding the impacts of sediment and pollutants to discovering how green stormwater infrastructure mimics nature's resilience, rene has shown us the path to a healthier river. Rene's passion and expertise inspires all to play a role in safeguarding our natural resources. Whether through education, advocacy or participation in local initiatives, each of us can contribute to the ongoing success of the French Broad River's restoration. Join us in protecting and revitalizing this really invaluable community asset. Together, we can make a difference for generations to come.
Speaker 1:Well, that's going to do it for this episode. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please subscribe, rate and leave us a review. Your feedback helps us to continue to bring you stories of how these mountains and the outdoors influence and shape our lives. Join me on Instagram and Facebook and drop me a line at mike at explorationlocalcom if you ever have a suggestion for a future episode. Until we meet again, I encourage you to wander far but explore local. Thank you,