Hatley Pointe: Rebuilding A North Carolina Ski Mountain Into A Year-Round Destination

In this episode, Deb Hatley shares the story behind rebuilding the former Wolf Ridge into Hatley Pointe — from major infrastructure challenges and leadership lessons to a bigger vision centered on hospitality, community, and creating a boutique mountain experience that feels intentional from the moment guests arrive.

We talk about first impressions of the mountain, the unexpected renovation challenges that led to a full rebuild, and how every detail of the guest journey is being reimagined from arrival to apres. Deb also shares how inspiration from places like Snowmass and European resorts helped shape a focus on service, atmosphere, and shorter lift lines, along with the harder moments — from timeline pressure and refunds to the bull wheel failure that tested her fortitude.

At its core, this is a conversation about building trust, balancing growth with guest experience, and what it really takes to operate and evolve a ski resort in the Southeast. We also look ahead to what’s next for Hatley Pointe as a true four-season destination, including lift-served mountain biking and expanded year-round access. If you care about mountain tourism, hospitality leadership, skiing and riding, or the future of outdoor recreation in the Blue Ridge, you’ll get a lot from this one.

Mike Andress
Host, Exploration Local
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mike@explorationlocal.com

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Transcript

A Mountain Resort Reimagined

SPEAKER_03 0:00

In this episode, Deb Hatley shares the story behind rebuilding the former Wolf Ridge into Hatley Point. From major infrastructure challenges and leadership lessons to a bigger vision centered on hospitality, community, and creating a boutique mountain experience that feels intentional from the moment guests arrive. We talk about first impressions of the mountain, the unexpected renovation challenges that led to a full rebuild, and how every detail of the guest journey is being reimagined from arrival to opera. Deb also shares how inspiration from places like SnowMass and European resorts help shape a focus on service, atmosphere, and shorter lift lines, along with the harder moments from timeline pressure and refunds to the bull wheel failure at Tester for Fortitude. At its core, this is a conversation about building trust, balancing growth with guest experience, and what it really takes to operate and evolve a ski resort in the Southeast. We also look ahead to what's next for Hatley Point as a true four-season destination, including lift-serve mountain biking and expanded year-round access. If you care about mountain tourism, hospitality leadership, skiing and riding, or the future of outdoor recreation in the Blue Ridge, you'll get a lot from this one. We're

Falling For Wolf Ridge’s Charm

SPEAKER_03 1:13

up here at Hatley Point in western North Carolina, right over the border from East Tennessee. And it's a mountain that's been a part of this region's ski story for a very long time. And over the last three years or so, it's been undergoing a massive transformation. Deb, I really appreciate you spending time with me here today. What did you see in this mountain that made you want to take this on?

SPEAKER_02 1:36

I believe that this mountain is extremely charming. The first time my husband and I came to visit Wolf Ridge, which was the previous name, it was in 2020 when we were under the COVID shutdown. And this place looked like a little mini Disneyland. There was snow. We had had some really great snow coverage that year. There were people everywhere, the hot chocolate, the fried chicken tenders and fries coming out of the lodge, people all in the slopes, the lift was busy. This place was really booming. And so when we first saw it, we were like, wow, this is this is here, like right in our backyard, because we just lived right over at the border in Johnson City. So about a 50-55-minute drive. And we just couldn't believe that this was kind of hiding behind uh the mountains. And we came in again. It was just this very whimsical, just charming, rustic little lodge, but it was really happening. And I just remember our first kind of thoughts were like, this is, you know, this is really cute and super beautiful, and you know, the snow was gorgeous. And so uh that was our first impression of Wolfridge. And come back to 2021 when we had first got the offer from Orville English, who was a predecessor of ours. He owned it for about 30 years with his family. We came in a different season, and it did not look as rustic, it did not look as charming, and there was definitely no snow on the ground, and there were a lot of yard ornaments, there were a lot of things that we were like, oh gosh, we didn't notice this, we didn't see this. So it lost its charm a little bit, but the mountain itself was the prettiest limitless views I have ever seen in my life. I actually could not believe that land like this still existed and that it was for sale.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

What were your thoughts about how you can make what you saw into what we're sitting in and experiencing today?

SPEAKER_02 3:50

I think that the bones and the mountain itself was so unique and it's such a diamond in the rough, as some people would say, it really just needed to be polished up. And that's what I saw. I saw that it had so much potential. The mountain itself, the terrain was awesome, the views were beautiful, there was a ton of potential, but it definitely needed a lot of TLC. And I think that a way you can easily see that or envision it is through the interiors and through the flow of how your guest is going to arrive. What the what's the first thing that they're gonna see upon their turn, the parking lots to the way that the lodge smells when you walk in to the coffee roasting, to the way that they're going to interact with your guest, they're gonna interact with the employees. What is the feel? Is it warm? Is it cold? So many of the things that were not there in the previous lodge, there was no HVAC system. So it was absolutely freezing cold. However, they did have these really rustic, roaring wood fireplaces that I mean, I think people off the bat hated me for when they saw me tearing them out. What they didn't realize is that they were hanging on by a toothpick and they were eroded from the inside out and they weren't built right. And people that have wood-burning fireplaces know the maintenance of those. And so we ended up going with gas, but just so many components that I think we thought this would be an aesthetic enhancement, but we were very wrong. So the vision was quick and easy to see how we could enhance a place by just interiors, the flow, the appearance of the lodge when you first come in. There were broken down machines, broken down cars, buses, and the parking, like the first two parking lots when you first came in. So it didn't really give you a warm and fuzzy feeling when you first came in. Of course, if there was snow all on all on the ground, when we first came in here in 2020, that picture looked a lot different. You really weren't seeing it was camouflaged. But when everything dissipated and it was just a lodge in itself, there were a lot of things that you could not overlook. So from day one, I was like, we're gonna have to rip the old carpet out, we're gonna have to take this wood paneling out. This needs to go. We could have probably spent two years on just cleaning up trash and broken down things. So immediately that was our first intention, but then it grew so much more vastly once we started to pull down walls, once we started to open up ditches and all the other things.

When Renovation Becomes A Rebuild

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Was there ever a point where you were just feeling completely overwhelmed once you started to really sort of uncover and unpack all the things that needed to be done just with the infrastructure alone?

SPEAKER_02 6:50

The whole time. The whole time. In fact, I would be lying if I still don't feel like that some days. But ultimately, we were naive enough to think that this was just gonna be a nip and tuck and it was a complete regutting, renovation, resurrection from the ground up. We would have been better off on time and money by bulldozing this thing to the ground and rebuilding it from scratch. However, we were trying to keep the original bones and the architecture because we really loved it.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

We were just trying to enhance it. We didn't want to demolish the past. We wanted to enrich what was there. So we went in and meticulously had to restructural everything from the inside out. The bones of it were not structurally made sound, and especially if you were gonna have more capacity here. So we had to get in structural engineers, re-engineer everything. And then, of course, the infrastructure itself was and is still is a huge, you know, task and project. And it's probably gonna be a project for lifelong as we continue to own this thing decades and decades. It is a very overwhelming deal. And it is something that we did not realize how vast it really truly would be, so much so that we thought we were gonna open up the same year, and we were very, very mistakenly wrong.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

Well, you come from a construction interior design kind of a background. So I would imagine when you looked at this canvas, you could see what it would become. But how does one prepare themselves for all the things that you're you're talking about now with how do we overcome this and how do we kind of move to this next stage? And is it just naturally kind of you know who you are and what's in you that kind of keeps you, you know, pushing? Is it the visionary piece? Is it a combination of all of that?

SPEAKER_02 8:50

I think so. I think it's a a part of just being a big risk taker, having boldness and really believing in what you're doing. I think if you have that conviction, then you can overcome a lot of fear. And there was a lot of unknowns, and there still is. I mean, it's a very unknown territory, even when you do your absolute best and you think that you have fixed any kind of real problem or error, whether it's pump stations, whether it's snow making infrastructure, or it's maintenance on your lift, you can do everything by the book, and there's still something that can come and bite you in the butt. So ultimately, the vision and caring truly about what we're putting out here, this being a legacy project, is what keeps our hearts beating, keeps our conviction, keeps the passion, just keeps us pushing on.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

That's great. Let's stay with the legacy concept a little bit because I think I know where you're going with that, but let's unpack that a little bit.

Legacy Vision Built On Hospitality

SPEAKER_03 9:54

What do you want the legacy to be and how is that driving everything that you do day in and day out?

SPEAKER_02 10:00

For Hatley Point, we are we eat, sleep, and breathe hospitality. That is our signature stampier. I want that to permeate throughout this whole mountain. So to me, Hatley Point is not and will not just be a winner. I want it to be a year-round experience. And it was really what caused us to bite the bullet on this acquisition was because the views, the real estate component of it was huge. There were 300 home lots that had perked. Um, early in the 2000s, there were several several developers that had kind of uh locked arms, and they had huge plans of expansion and development from convention centers to hotels to condos, single-family homes, apartments, and more lift infrastructure, more ski slopes. And then the market crashed and they all went belly up. And there was actually several homes here that were sold. Breakaway, the back side of the mountain was thriving. They had the upper lodge. So there were so many things that were viable and exciting in the early 2000s. And then once it crashed, it just became like this ghost town. So reviving that idea and that dream for this place, because it was going to be more, but doing it in a more intentional way, in a more Hatley Point way. Um, we're not here to build 300 homes. I'm not here to build a convention center and Nora probably a hotel. We've we've definitely massaged out different ways that we can bring people here because everyone that comes, they get so excited, they love what we're doing, they get so connected to it. Well, do you guys have Airbnbs? Do you guys have a hotel? No, not yet. No, not yet. So we want to extend that across the mountain in every way. So bringing impeccable service, intentional development, and just amazing service is what we're here to do.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

Yeah. Did you benchmark against any resorts either out west, here in the southeast, any other kind of areas when you were kind of thinking about what this could be like?

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Well, funny story, I never put on skis until I came here to this mountain in 2020.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

All right.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Okay, so still learning how to ski, and it is very hard. And I have done a lot of falling on this mountain. No, I went out west, and when we found out that we were not going to be reaching our very advantageous, crazy goal that we had cut out for ourselves to renovate this thing in six months and be operational in 2023. We bought it in March of 2023. We thought we were going to be back open doors come winter season because we didn't want it to go down without having, you know, people here. So we went out to the west and took the opportunity to go and see what potential was out there and how we could get inspired. We went to Snow Mass and most of all of our plans were already set in stone, like the design, the flow, all the things, but we went out there to see if we were on the right track. And we were. We saw so many things that were already created. I mean, from ski rental equipment, hanging holders from the the rental system itself, the software systems, the RFID gates, the flow, the energy, the look, all of those things were like, oh my gosh, we're doing something right. This feel this is innate to us. Like, wow. We were we were really excited. So I think it gave us even more reassurance that we were not crazy for thinking the way that we were thinking. Cause a lot of people, especially locals, were very skeptical as to what we were doing here. We were they we were called, oh, these northerners that are coming in, they don't know, you know, what the South is about, and you know, our hospitality and people come and ski there in blue jeans, and you know, how are they gonna make this boutique experience work? And all they heard was money. They sort of saw boutique and they equated it to being expensive. And we were like, no, no, no, no. We want to be competitive with everybody else. We want to be right in line. We just really want to focus on a more curated experience from the mountain to inside. That's what we're here to do.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

So it was at that moment then in Snowmass where you just kind of realized, hey, we are on to something.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Yeah. And even studying just some different resorts on, you know, in Europe, they are there's a ton of, I mean, there's ski resorts on every corner in Europe. And so very competitive, but every single one of them is just devoted to the hospitality piece and the food and beverage piece. Like it makes that experience 10 times more, and it's how they keep their guests coming and staying longer than just going out because a lot of people get exhausted after, you know, 10 runs or sometimes less. So the way that they relax and they appray in the lodge or, you know, in some of the other support buildings is very important. It truly is, because at the end of the day, there's just some people that not that are not meant or do not want to spend all their time out there on the mountain, but they want to be a part of the experience. They want a a sliver of it. They don't want to be out there all day long. They get exhausted very fast, or they're kids or they're beginners.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Yeah, I think that's great. And I think the other thing that really has started to resonate and make sense to me over the last couple of years, and especially this last season, is I'm one of those that I want to be out there from, you know, sunup to sundown, first year to last year, kind of a thing. But this, what I've observed are people that are coming in that are exactly like you're describing. Like if that was your goal from the very beginning, that was your vision, if that's what you wanted to be, you're absolutely knocking it out of the park, Deb, and you and your staff and everybody, because it offers just that something for everybody. And I think that today, in today's world, it's it's sometimes it's it's more about the experience than it is about just saying, I'm just gonna go rip it for nine hours on the mountain. And I think you've you're providing that, and that's the kind of element that's coming that's coming out. I know for me, driving up or excuse me, riding up on the lift, talking with people that come from various areas and not just local people here. We're talking about a few states away, obviously, people coming out of Florida, overwhelmed by something that they did not expect when they got here. And I think that's really something that's catching on for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Well, it's a part of tourism. I mean, that's what ultimately we are here to do is to bring and bridge the tourism here in western North Carolina. And I think for us, we're in a really unique spot because we're so conveniently located to Asheville, Tri-Cities area. We're 10 minutes off the interstate, so you're not going through these crazy backroads for an hour where you're losing cell service. So the connection is easy here, but you know, ultimately too, the other piece of it is that people want more value in today's world. They want a bigger value. They want more than just what they're getting for one transaction. So we're trying to be ahead of the game and think forward and think how can we be 10 steps ahead and be providing people something that goes past their expectations, like you said. And that's what that's a Hatley Point signature, and that's what we'll continue to do.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

You do an amazing job on social media and the experience here, you deliver on exactly what you say that you want to deliver. For somebody who hasn't been here, though, personally, because it's one thing, and that is the one thing I will tell you that I talked to a lot of people like, yeah, once I saw them on social media, I just had to come check this place out. Yeah, I mean, that's so whatever your ethos is there or whatever your vision was, it definitely works.

Defining A Boutique Guest Journey

SPEAKER_03 18:29

But for somebody who hasn't been here, this is a boutique ski resort. Let's unpack what that means to somebody just experientially when you walk in from the parking lot all the way into the building onto the runs.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Yes, boutique means to us, it is just an elevated, curated experience and it's intentional. So the moment that you come into the lodge, making sure that things are manicured, that you are in a safe place. We do a lot of our own road maintenance and clearing ourselves, even though we are tucked into an established community, Wolf Laurel. 900 homes back here, they have their own road maintenance and security. So you go through a private gate. The other piece of that is that we want to not only piggyback off of what they've created here because it is a super nice community, but we also want to do our due diligence to make sure that people feel when they arrive here that they have arrived to something that is just a little different. It's a little nicer. So from the well-kept parking lots to someone, you know, shuttle shuttling you up to the top to a drop-off area. That is one thing. I mean, all ski resorts are known. You have to have these huge expansive parking lots, and you're either thrown in a school bus to get from point A to point B, or you have a really long, treacherous walk. And so after our first year, we allowed so many people just to come and drop off their families, but we were creating such a bottleneck that we were like, gosh, we have to figure this out. So we created our own parking, our own drop-off for families to drop off their equipment, to drop off your family member and the husband or wife or friend or whatever takes the car back down and parks and then they walk up. But you know, just always thinking ahead and trying to just think about how we're gonna make it more ease, more ease to our cons to our customer. But the the the the biggest pieces are is our uncrowded mountain. We have capacity. And when we reach that capacity, we will not sell another ticket past that. And we've gotten, you know, some complaints on it and some very frustrated people because they're like, what? You know, like I thought this was just like every other ski resort where you can just walk in and, you know, we have it all on our website, we have it all on our social media that we are, you know, we are capacity when we hit it. We we sell out often. So please secure your reservations and your tickets prior. So the idea with that is that you're never sitting in a lift line more than 10 minutes. For us, I think that just kills it. When you're sitting there and you are just in a 30 plus minute long lift line, you're frustrated, you're tired, you're hungry. Um, and then the other component is that you're terrified when you're out on the mountain because of how many other people are out there with you.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

So creating that, you know, uncrowded, you know, mountain feel, and then you know, making sure that we stay very true to not having a lift line that's ever over 10 minutes. Um, and then of course, the other piece of it is our hospitality, just our staff. I mean, I think if you've been to Hatley Point or if you haven't been to Hatley Point, that is something that you will recognize right from the beginning is the warm and friendly faces, anyone that's willing to help you, anyone that's willing to show you around extra, they're not even willing. They will just be, they'll just do it naturally. Um, and a lot of just other little Tailored kind of signature moves that we've done here that have created a much more fast and seamless transition and then overall just enhanced from food and beverage to always having events to always having something going on that's different and fun. During Christmas last year, I mean, we had Santa here for a week. We had his elves, we had a snow globe. Yeah, that was great. We just all the little things that just, you know, at the end of the day matter. Sometimes this is a family's only time that they get to take their kids. They could have been saving up to take their kids here. We want to make sure that their money is well spent and that they're getting more than just the ski rentals, the lessons and the mountain time because you know, those kids probably got cranky after an hour or two. Right. And here's these poor parents who just spent all this money. What are they gonna do? Well, we've got movie time, we've got, you know, ornament painting with Santa and the elves. We got baking cookies with Mrs. Claus and, you know, things that just are important in the hospitality world because that's how I think of us. I think we're in the hospitality world.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

100% you're in the hospitality world. And y'all are absolutely knocking that piece out of the park.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Even as something as the smell, as simple as the smell when you walk into this place. It literally is walking into a five-star hotel. It really is. And it's constantly clean. I mean, the number of times I have been to the restroom and I turn around and there's somebody there that's cleaning, but they're they're actually handing me paper towels. I mean, it's just the little types of things that you're, you know, that you're talking about. And the uncrowded piece, the capacity piece, is so key. It really is. And it really allows you to feel like you have a private mountain.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

There's never been a time that I have been here that I have felt like I'm waiting forever, or that the mountain is way overcrowded. And this coming season, that's gonna get even better. And we'll talk about that here in a minute because you share with me a little bit of the uh the insight of what's coming up, and I can't wait for listeners to hear that. But now

Overpromising Refunds And Transparency

SPEAKER_03 24:07

that you've gotten to this phase of this process, a couple years in now, it looks far, far different than it did before. What are some of the biggest lessons that you have learned?

SPEAKER_02 24:18

I think for us, when we first walked into it so blindly, we made a lot of commitments that were from the right heart, but it very much humbled me and made me realize that don't overpromise and underdeliver. And we did that in the beginning because we just didn't know the challenges that we were up against. And so we made these promises. We sold season passes, we sold daily passes. And Mike, I had to turn around and refund all of these people and tell them how incredibly sorry I was that we weren't going to make it to winter season 2023, 2024. And um, that was a really big lesson. And then the other piece of that, when I learned that lesson in the first six months, I was so in over my head and I knew it kind of internally, but I was trying to be the monument and pillar for my staff and everyone else and the community to try to keep like the excitement and just try to keep the momentum to try to get there. I withheld a lot of what was going on. I was not being forthcoming or really showing the reality of what we were dealing with and what we were coming across and the obstacles and the new unknowns and the new horrible wild cards that we were being faced. Instead, I was just like dealing with them internally and not really showing anyone. So all these people were like, what is going on? What is going on? What is going on? I mean, they just felt kind of left in the dark. And I understand. So whenever I found that voice of I'm just going to be who I am and transparent and real and honest, that's all I know how to do and be, that was whenever we really learned that that is what is going to get us a connection and ultimately build our community here. So the lesson of not being a not living in fear because of not knowing what I'm gonna potentially embark on today or tomorrow, being honest, being transparent. Um, and I think that that has really fueled and given us a lot of strength in moments that we really needed it.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

That's beautiful. That's very well said. And the thing for me that where I kind of saw that, you you and I had a chance to talk several times over this past season, but the one thing about you is that there wasn't a social media person that was out there reading emails and social media stuff and posting. You really took this to heart. So you listened and you read and you responded. That was you behind the keyboard on a lot of those things. And so that was sort of that. Um I feel like I I had a chance to kind of experience a little bit of that pivot where all of a sudden the transparency piece, you know, was was out, the out the outfront piece of you know, yes, we we are putting this amazing thing together, but man, we're stubbing our toe here, or really not even stubbing your toe. I mean, you're uh we had a sure just a terrible winter.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

But I mean, this past winter still dealing with the past, dealing with the past, all the things that keep rear-rearing their heads, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

The bull wheel this year, all those kind of things. Um, so yeah, I think you living that out loud has been huge. And I think that's what people really connect. There's a saying a long time ago was once you know somebody's story, it's impossible not to love them. Right? So, whatever that means. And really, once you know somebody's story, once somebody knows the story of Hatley Point, it is really difficult not to fall deeply in love with this place. You know, so what you're creating is is huge.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Oh, absolutely. You know, thank you all.

Bull Wheel Failure And Community Trust

SPEAKER_03 28:14

All right, so let's kind of uh shift the focus a little bit. So we talked about the things or lessons you've learned. What about some of the most memorable things before we start to get into what's coming in the future?

unknown 28:23

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

I keep throwing these big blood questions at you.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

I feel like overcoming so many of the obstacles and seeing the spirit and the tenacity of our staff, because at the end of the day, we wouldn't be here without their heart and their hard work, but then the translation of the community that has rallied behind us. One of my most favorite and just emotional pieces of this story for me was when our bull wheel felled. I cannot even put into words how bad that hurt. Like it truly, any heartbreak I've ever had in my life, it was worse. It was like breaking and shattering the hearts of thousands of people that I didn't even know. And having to face that was so hard. And I thought in that moment, I'm just so done. Like I just I can't do this anymore. Like, this is just so hard. This is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. And then I'm having to disappoint people, and then you feel like an idiot, and just like all of the things that you just struggle with. I mean, as a human being, yeah, yeah. Um, especially with having a lot of pressure, you know. I mean, it was getting ready to be one of our biggest weekends in the ski industry. I mean, from a, you know, from a revenue perspective, it was such a huge loss. But it wasn't even that. It was truly the fact that I was going to have to tell these people that they were not going to have a place to ski per se. So the way that people responded, I mean, I cl I turned off my phone. My employees grabbed took my phone, they turned it off, and they said, We're gonna keep this for a couple hours because they know how I am when it comes to looking at every comment and every message and every review and how much I take it to heart. And so I got on the next day, and I mean, I literally just was in awe. My like jaw was on the ground, no negative, not one negative comment, Mike. Every single person. Oh my gosh, how devastating! Like they truly felt for us.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

I was like, what? You guys feel bad for us? We felt terrible for you. So uh yeah, we refunded everyone and we still kept, we still kept, you know, our hearts in it. You know, we found other alternative ways for people to still enjoy their time here and live music and lots of complimentary things. People were walking up the mountain. We ended up having a really cold day, so we were able to blow some more snow and work more on our base, work more on getting more slopes open too, because we did have like a really stinky beginning of our winter, and it just kind of put us back. And, you know, we dealt with pump station issues, and um, so it just was amazing to just see the rally and the spirit. That was something that you just you can't bottle that up, you can't buy it.

unknown 31:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Yeah, and you can't manufacture it, you know. It I mean, it was very real, it was very raw, it was very good. And y'all did an amazing job handling that whole scenario, being out in front, letting people know what happened. But I have to tell you, the one thing for me, the silver lining in that is something you just said, it it allowed you, we were kind of in between these periods of warm spells, and it allowed you to really kind of save what was there and build and open more. And when you did reopen that file that that week from there to the rest of the season, it was just absolutely banging.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

It was it was awesome.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

It was so awesome. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

I definitely felt like that was God on our side. I mean, it was just like okay, we went through this massive kind of halt and you know, holding period, but really we were able to stay very active and had a lot of mobility because we were able to, you know, keep the groomers out on the slopes and isolate slopes and move stuff around, and it just gave us a lot of um extra action time.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

Yeah, awesome, great stuff.

Four-Season Plans Bike Park And Lifts

SPEAKER_03 32:44

All right, so let's look to the future now. We have another season coming up, but we don't have to wait until the winter 2026, 2027 season. We have some mountain biking that is right around the corner. You have already put all this stuff out on social, but I would just kind of love to chat about that a little bit more. And you kind of set it up because you said we really want to be this four-season destination, which you are completely uh in the position to be able to do. But let's talk about these great bike parks or these uh bike trails.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Yes, absolutely. We are so excited. It is going to be, you know, a new unknown kind of world for us. We don't know exactly what the, you know, we know the level of excitement. I'm so curious to see how it measures up to ski season and what the volume looks like. That'll be interesting. But we're opening up this year with a soft opening. We were originally slated for an early spring opening on the bike park, but because of the bull well failure that we experienced with the summit, we've gone through and just we are literally testing every large piece and small piece and doing a lot more extra, just like crossing T's, dotting I's to ensure that we are not in that subject again. So it's caused us a little bit of a delay, but it will give us a great opportunity to kind of get our beaks wet, have everyone come out and experience it, give us their feedback, let us know what we can improve on, and get us anchored up and teed up for a full mountain bike season for next year. So we've got 12 trails all the way from beginner to very advanced. We partnered with a a very well-versed, world-renowned um bike builder, uh Peter Mills from Elevated Trail Design. He studied this mountain because it's in his backyard and he grew up here. So this was a huge passion passion project for him. I mean, this guy, I think, has like he's known the footprint of these trails for 10 years. He has had his eye on making this place a lift-served bike park, and it finally came to fruition for him, and we're really excited to bring it in. And just we know that in Western North Carolina, it is a really it's a big uh community, and ultimately we want to find more ways to get you know more activities here on the mountain that parallel with what we're doing here at Hatley Point, and from all the people that are avid mountain bikers, they said that it is top-notch. So another thing I'm gonna have to learn putting my helmet, all my my pads on, probably put me in some kind of bubble. But anyways, I'm gonna find my way down this mountain.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

Oh, that's so cool. At what point did that become a part of that vision? I know I mean, no, we talk about four-season, but had you always had in the back of your mind bike park?

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Well, Peter introduced himself really early on. I mean, within like two weeks of him knowing that we bought it. This man was persistent. He showed me his original sketches, and I mean, he had really done a lot of work. He had worked previously with Orville on having it open for about two months, several years ago. I mean, it was like very premature style like trails, like it was more just kind of open writing. But needless to say, is that he quickly introduced me to the idea of it, and so it was within our original scope and plans when we were scoping out exactly how we wanted to expand into more four-season activities.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

So that's coming in in August. That's what I saw on social media. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

August, September, October. So we'll hopefully be able to get all the way to the end of October, you know, maybe Halloween week, and give people a good taste of what the bike park is like.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Can't imagine a better time and season to open that up. It'll be beautiful. Oh my gosh, it's gonna be amazing. All right. So we have the bike part, but then we have a new lift, a tunnel lift that's going in. Let's talk about that and who it's gonna serve and how you think it's gonna kind of help with the with the lifts.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Absolutely. So as everyone knows, we have one lift or had one lift, and that sweet little lift has just kept me up way too many nights that I will even begin to tell you guys. Uh, but ultimately, we wanted to find ways for us to diverse what our options are. And here at Hatley Point and in the Southeast, you know, 70% of the people that ski here are beginners. And so so many, 78% of those people, if they are riding the lift, they're getting off at mid-station.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

They're not going to the top. And one of the comments that we get more than we get anything else is I wish there were was more way, more ways for us to get our feet wet per se before having to go on the lift and experience more terrain. Okay. You know, the bunny slope is a good starting base of really just learning how to stand up and stop. But from there, they're not really ready to get on the lift and go from there. I mean, so many of them fall off the lift and you're having to stop the lift. So we're really hoping that that is going to create more of an ease to our main flagship lift and give the beginner a better experience and a way for them to really, you know, get confidence before having to get up on the lift. And this is a 400-foot carpet. So the starting point and ending point is really at our slow period. So a lot of people have asked, well, is this not going to bottleneck like, you know, the slopes and, you know, sure. I mean, of course, you know, in a in a standpoint, I'm sure during some of those busier holiday seasons, that's just normal. You're going to get a little bit of that, but with the right mitigation on slow signs and roping certain areas off and things like that, it will create, you know, a good flow. But this is our slow area. This is where you should be slowing down anyways. You shouldn't be beelining, Lamborghinis through this area anyway. So it's going to be awesome. 400-foot tunnel. So it'll have lights, it'll have music. And I just think it's really gonna, you know, give the beginners something to look forward to and something exciting. And I may have something really exciting for people that are not so beginners.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

Do we want to unpack and share?

SPEAKER_02 39:16

I mean, if you're gonna twist my arm, Mike.

SPEAKER_03 39:19

Okay, I'm twisting. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

So future is what we're always thinking about here at Hatley Point, and you know, staying 10 steps ahead and 20 steps ahead. And one of those ways that we're doing that is in a big way. And uh, when the bull will bull wheel failed, we had its issue this past winter. I said, I'm not doing this anymore. I cannot continue to have my emotional weight tied to this lift anymore. It's causing so much stress and gray hairs and da da da no. Anyways, um really just wanted to be able to say I have something that is secure and confident and is going to just give people a lot more confidence in what we're doing here. So, in true Hatley Point form and fashion, you know, we can't do anything halfway. That's right. And so we're doing the best of the best, and we are putting in a six-pack high-speed lift.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

In 2027. So it won't be this ski season, it will be following ski season 27-28.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

We'll be relocating the quad and it will be getting its own station. Um, we just acquired another 12 more acres that were it was on the front side in these islands that we didn't own on the front side of the mountain.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

So we're gonna be doing a lot of clearing and groundwork, and it's gonna be it's not gonna be loading on Broadway. It's gonna be loading somewhere kind of off of snow shoot, and it's gonna be for more advanced riding. So it will take you to all of the bowls, it'll take you to both sides. But if you're really looking just to ride the advanced stuff, this will be, you know, this will be your lift, especially if it's on a busier, you know, weekend and you're like, hey, I just I wanna I just want to hit the bowl, I want to hit flame out, I want to hit Southern Express. That's all I want to do the whole time I'm here. You'll kind of have your own lift to you.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Um, but it'll be parallel, you know, to the high speed, which will get you up to the top in under three minutes.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Insane.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

So cool.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

It's gonna have a mid-station, insane, kind of unheard of, you know, adding to the value and to the boutique experience of Hatley Point, and we hope that that continues to just act as a monument and a flagship to create the rest of what we're trying to do here.

SPEAKER_03 41:43

And it's not like I mean, yes, that is gonna be amazing, but because you have the capacity, it really doesn't kill you to be on the current lift other than the reasons and the frustrations that you've been through, because you can still get out there and get access to everything. But this is just gonna make it even better. If you were to take in our region, if you were to take the same snow and put it everywhere, this is where I would want to be. And the reason being is because of the variety of the terrain. So maybe the vertical isn't as big in some of the double blacks, but guess what? It's still there and it's still very, very much legit. And I think it really spreads the mountain out and it gives access to everybody, and you can go from a progression here from the the tunnel lift all the way up to the steepest of the steepest that

Snowmaking Upgrades And Lodge Expansion

SPEAKER_03 42:34

you're gonna find in our region.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

And you have it all.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

You absolutely have it all, and you have more snowmaking that's gonna be going on. This year, some of those were out of, they were just they were out, we couldn't do them.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

But this year you're gonna have brand new snowmaking going on.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Yeah. One of the things that we just continue to learn and advance ourselves in is understanding the window cycle of snowmaking. And, you know, what people don't see with snowmaking is the sometimes failures or problems that you have or even impedes that you have when you are trying to build slopes. So you get an open cold pattern for three days. Well, you want to make sure that you're building number one, you're having to build your base in the beginning, you're having to prioritize a certain amount of slopes. And of course, you you want variety, but ultimately you have to focus lower end. And then you start working your way up the mountain or up to one side, skiers left or skiers right, with understanding that, you know, you only have certain windows because you're in the southeast. And as we experienced last year, we were getting two day windows. I mean, and it was enough just for us to cover what we had already created. I mean, you know, you're putting snowmaking efforts, but then if it's only a foot, well, it's gonna get melted and Day. So if you don't have another cold smell right behind it and you have another 60 degree rain, you know, all the things that are coming behind it. So it is just so much give and take, but we are bolstering even more of our pump stations. We redid completely rehoused all new pump stations in our main reservoir, um, or not our main, our secondary reservoir that's here located on the mountain. But the main one that pulls from the natural water source down um at the bottom of the mountain, that one we had not completely re-machined and rehoused. So that one is getting its new fabrication this off season. Then on the other part of it, we got 25 more snow guns. So one of the issues that we ran into last year is because those windows were so short, we were having to move mobiles around, which is just very time consuming. And uh these guys are working in the middle of the night, you know, with only so much uh capacity to see, to move. It's freezing cold, you know, X, Y, and Z. So we're going to be a hundred percent snow making on every slope, including the double black diamonds. We're putting in all new infrastructure, all new pipeline, all new electrical, and we have 25 more snow guns that are coming. Wow. So it is going to completely tie up our front end. The pump station is getting a nice, you know, upgrade. And, you know, I mean, not to say that we still won't run into, you know, issues. It's just a part of the game. But that I think is gonna make a massive difference because we didn't have that before.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

We uh, you know, we only had snow making on so many runs. So now we're gonna be good to go.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

Love it. Absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

So more snow and faster.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

More snow and faster. Oh, I can't wait. And then when you come in, we have some expansions and some things that are going on upstairs, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Yes, yes. I have not even talked one peep about this. But a couple things. So we we we demoed our mountain operations buildings completely down, our groomer buildings, and then the other maintenance building that we had. It really just was not adequate for the amount of money that we've invested in these machines and all of our snow making and all of that. So it's very important because your mountain ops team is so important.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:24

So we're building them a really nice mountain ops campus, you know, gonna hold all of our nice machines, gonna have a lift to be able to work on our groomers, gonna have, you know, adequate lighting, offices, the whole nine yards. But the other piece of this is we're actually expanding the lodge this offseason. Ask me where we're getting the time, but it's happening. Come and see me in October, and I'll probably be yanking my hair out that I've just told you this.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Well, let's talk about what that will look like and what is your vision for that space?

SPEAKER_02 47:00

Our vision for the space is that it is going to be an expansion on the viewer's lounge.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

The viewer's lounge is the most popping place. It is where people get out of the cold, they come and break, they get a quick bite to eat, they pop their feet up. Some people stay longer than others, but ultimately that's kind of our lower part of the lounge. Um, like we call our grandparents' den. That's like where grandparents bring their book, they anchor down, they get their blankies, they're by the fireplace. So upstairs in the viewer's lounge, though, we are going to build out the wall. If you've been up there, the wall that the bar is on and all of the banket seating, we are going to knock that whole wall out and we are extending it completely out. So it's going to be another 40 by 40, and then it's also going to have a wraparound deck.

SPEAKER_03 47:55

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

So it's going to be pretty big. We're going to be getting started on it like very, very soon. We had structural engineers that came here yesterday, um, started their, you know, final kind of site mapping and planning, and it's going to be taking place. So very excited because there were definitely weekends that it was, you know, really, really tight. And um we just want to make sure that there's plenty of of room and capacity for people to have a seat and enjoy themselves for a minute.

SPEAKER_03 48:25

Oh, I love it. Yeah. Is that going to be done for this coming season, or will that take a little bit of man gosh, you guys don't move slow on anything.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

We we keep an in-house team. So we have our GC license. Oh, okay. Um, and I have a guy I've worked with for a long time, um, and he really helps bring my crazy visions to life. We have an internal team that does all of our building, all of our construction work. So that really gives us the ability to move at our own pace.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

We're not really gatekeeped, you know, to having to hire out third-party GCs who are having to do all this stuff for you, which sometimes can be, you know, there's a give and take with it because it can be more stressful and exhausting. But at the end of the day, it gives us a lot of independence and a lot of vertical growth.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

Integration. Yeah. I mean, you you kind of you're in charge of your own destiny when it comes to that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

That's right. Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

That's so good. Okay, so what is hiding behind the the veil, so to speak, that I have not asked and that we have not uncovered so far today?

Real Estate Backside Access And Goodbye

SPEAKER_02 49:28

I think the only kind of last piece that I would have to say and talk about is our real estate opportunities that are really starting to get hot and heavy. We are in the works with um some different developers on mountain development side of things just to make sure that we're really thinking about this in the best possible way. Because, you know, there's so much opportunity here, and I can see something, but someone else that has had a lot more experience than I have all around the world can take that vision and expand it even more. So we got some different partners that are working with us and taking kind of our um, you know, our foundational wants and build on real estate, and we are starting to put that into play. So that is looking like a neighborhood that is getting etched out, um, a road access that will house going all the way to the top of the mountain.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

And it will be viable year-round. So the road, because a lot of these roadways over here are really kind of sketchy if it's not summertime. Yeah, yeah. So home sites are going to be hopefully coming up for sale within the next year. And then we're also looking at condos that are adjacent to the lodge that will be our first set of Airbnbs here at Hatley Point. So we've got some really exciting real estate opportunities and development and just ultimately taking what we're building here and accentuating it out.

SPEAKER_03 50:59

Amazing. And that was really part of your vision from the word go. That was part of when you walked on this mountain and you saw that was always in the back of your mind of what this could be, not just what it was.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

That's right. I think at the end of the day, a lot of people see it and they're like, wow, how dumb are you guys? Like for build buying a ski resort, you know, do y'all not see global warming and all these things that are happening? But ultimately, you know, this is this is a resort. This is a year-round destination place. I mean, the Blue Ridge Mountains, people come from all over the world to come and see this place during the summer and in the fall, not just in wintertime. That's right. So we want to capitalize off of that and make it the best it absolutely can be. Give people a reason to come to Hatley Point when they're not in skis. And uh there's so much to see. The views are absolutely amazing, and we think that they're this is the best real estate in Western North Carolina. I mean, the top is insane. The back side of the mountain, we haven't even scratched that yet. That is what really makes this mountain so unique is tying in the back, which is west facing. And it is just, it's some of the coolest terrain back there. It's not advanced, but you hit the top, and when you're going over, all you see are Mount Mitchell, the most insane views, limitless views.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 52:27

You go through this huge culvert to go to the backside, and it's just a very unique, cool kind of west coast experience.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

Very nice.

SPEAKER_02 52:36

So that will be coming in our next marching orders for following off season this year. We wanted to get the front completely tied in, tied down, get all slopes with 100% snow making before we moved on to the back.

SPEAKER_03 52:48

But that's to come. Well, uh so I haven't been to the backside, obviously, but the at the very top, when you're looking out to the west, it has to be some of the most incredible views in all of North Carolina Mountains and all the Blue Ridge. I mean, it really does. And um, I can't tell you the number of times that I go up there, and that is a photo op spot. Everybody stops to get their picture, either to get a selfie or a couple or just to take the picture themselves.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 53:18

You come up, I remember the first time coming up there. My daughter was skiing with me a couple years ago, and uh it was sort of right at dusk. It was in February, so the sun was out, you know, setting a little bit later. And Deb, it was uh, I mean, we were speechless.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

It is just absolutely that. I mean, we took a UTV ride from an area that we own on the Tennessee side, and we got to the top. There's an airstrip up there, which is absolutely wild.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

No way.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

Yep, we own this airstrip.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

This was something that the previous owner had created and kind of had this idea of building this almost mountain air um style airstrip. You'd have to ask for a death wish to land a plane on it, though. I mean, I it's scary even walking on the darn thing. But, anyways, it is just spectacular. You can see views for days. The sunsets are unreal. And so that piece of property and that piece of terrain on that side is, in my opinion, what makes the mountain so beautiful and like so unique because it just it has these two different facing views of the mountain. So you get south facing, you get west facing, you know, you get you get a little bit of everything. So it's just it's an it's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 54:45

It absolutely is amazing. Um so we've kind of described this place, we've described the boutique, we've described as much as we could about what's coming, what has been. When someone drives away from the mountain, they're on their way home, there's their first time coming here. What do you hope stays with them the most?

SPEAKER_01 55:04

I think I want them to feel like they were the only person here.

SPEAKER_02 55:14

The intentionality, the care, and the experience is the most important thing for us. And again, that is so many levels. It's not just the skiing, it's not just the mountain biking, it's how you felt and how you were cared for while you were here at the mountain and in the lodge. So that's how I want them to leave is feeling like they were truly cared about, thought about that's what's the most important thing here for us. That's why we do it.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

I love it. I absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 55:50

Well, listen, thanks so much for this time. I know that you're busy, all the things that we laid out. I know you need to get right back to it, but I really appreciate you taking the time to kind of lay all this out for me. Um, I know on behalf of all the people who ski and snowboard and ride and and also ride mountain bikes, they appreciate what you all are doing as well. And it absolutely is a wonderful, wonderful place. If you haven't been here, this is the season you can come.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

Thank you so much, Mike. It was an awesome time just talking with a good friend here. And I appreciate all of your business and just your commitment to Hatley Point and what we're doing here. You've been, you know, an ambassador of Hatley Point, and I've really just gotten loved getting to know you and your family and appreciate, you know, your trust and the fact that you believe in what we're doing here. So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 56:37

Absolutely. Thanks, Tim. Thanks for listening. What's happening at Hatley Point is one of those rare transformations from a familiar Blue Ridge Ski Mountain into something much more intentional, evolving into a boutique, four-season resort centered on hospitality, experience, and the small details that help shape how a place feels. Warren Miller once said, if you don't do it this year, you'll just be one year older when you do. Be sure to make this year your year to experience Howley Point. And if you enjoyed this episode, please follow the show and share it with a friend. Follow me on Instagram and Facebook, and drop me a note at mic at explorationlocal.com if you ever have ideas for future episodes. Until next time, thanks for listening. And as always, I encourage you to wander far but explore local.